David Holdsworth Thread

carwash wrote: The Club overspent with generous incentive based contracts. Holdsworth has come in and said that he doesn't like these contracts and said some players were getting more than they were worth. Agreed it wasn't Curle's job to oversee his own spending but he should have been better at getting value for money. Clibbens gets just as much criticism for not controlling what Curle was spending. Holdsworth being paid by the club doesn't affect anything. EWM are of the view that the Club's finances were out of control because of overspending on players. Holdsworth is there to put that right.

How does he know what they were worth? You might as well have me in as Director of Football!

carwash wrote: The Club overspent with generous incentive based contracts. Holdsworth has come in and said that he doesn't like these contracts and said some players were getting more than they were worth. Agreed it wasn't Curle's job to oversee his own spending but he should have been better at getting value for money. Clibbens gets just as much criticism for not controlling what Curle was spending. Holdsworth being paid by the club doesn't affect anything. EWM are of the view that the Club's finances were out of control because of overspending on players. Holdsworth is there to put that right.

"Agreed it wasn't Curle's job to oversee his own spending but he should have been better at getting value for money"

But when the money side of things was not down to Curle, just the football then surely the culprits were Clibbens and Nixon as they were the two with the power to say 'no', any manager identifies his players and he is told if he can have them or not.

The players we are left with have got us up to sixth so I would say that is good value for money for the players that were brought in.

carwash wrote: The Club overspent with generous incentive based contracts. Holdsworth has come in and said that he doesn't like these contracts and said some players were getting more than they were worth. Agreed it wasn't Curle's job to oversee his own spending but he should have been better at getting value for money. Clibbens gets just as much criticism for not controlling what Curle was spending. Holdsworth being paid by the club doesn't affect anything. EWM are of the view that the Club's finances were out of control because of overspending on players. Holdsworth is there to put that right.

The blame wasn't Curles. the way that it goes is you get it moving in the right direction and you expect the owner to get his hand in his pocket to push it on Curly Keith did his bit only to find when it came to time to step up and get some bigger cigars and better players not only had Jenkins lost the chequebook but the last remaining vestiges of a pair of balls into the bargain.

Nothing wrong in the slightest with heavily incentivised contracts but you need to ensure that when success starts to come other people are there to help you pay for them and unfortunately Jenkins hasn't a clue about how to do that so I don't see how you can lay the blame with the Curly one apart from being a bloke who clearly needed to have a good drink and get a bit of help with his personality disorder and associated problems.

carwash wrote: The Club overspent with generous incentive based contracts. Holdsworth has come in and said that he doesn't like these contracts and said some players were getting more than they were worth. Agreed it wasn't Curle's job to oversee his own spending but he should have been better at getting value for money. Clibbens gets just as much criticism for not controlling what Curle was spending. Holdsworth being paid by the club doesn't affect anything. EWM are of the view that the Club's finances were out of control because of overspending on players. Holdsworth is there to put that right.

What portion of blame does Suzanne Kidd shoulder then?

I could be wrong bit I doubt whether Suzanne Kidd has much say on club policy. She spends most of her time dodging creditors and seems happiest selling tickets in the paddock ticket office!

nobbyblue wrote: I could be wrong bit I doubt whether Suzanne Kidd has much say on club policy. She spends most of her time dodging creditors and seems happiest selling tickets in the paddock ticket office!

So you think shes got a made up job title as a board member?

[censored] knows!

On Holdsworth , not sure why the reluctant ones were reluctant to introduce him , but now he's here he sounds like a force for good. Bull by the horns springs to mind

nobbyblue wrote: [censored] knows!

I do. I cant imagine the manager goes to her when he wants a new striker.

For Christ's sake, who the hell does Holdsworth think he is? From what I have read on the O/S so far, he has swanned into BP like he owns the place - I'm sorry David, but we can't just wipe the slate clean and pretend the last 10 years of the current BOD's ownership and all the associated faeces hasn't happened. In the long term he may do a valuable job, but as in any profession, you have to earn respect first.

I disagree....why does he have to earn respect and from who? Sounds like he knows what he's on about to me.....and he was invited he didn't just swan into Brunton Park

Just don't think he did himself any favours by not releasing a statement right away regarding his position.

Because of the mistrust most of us have with the board he just got lumped in with it as fans just want to hear what's going on even if they like the truth or not.

Could be a good egg but how many players has he actually signed or been involved in?

Judging by a few of our signings then I would say that Sheridan's connection brought them in.

Strange appointment as couldn't Clibbens do this role as if we haven't got any cash then there are two of them asleep with their feet up on the desk answering a knock at the door from Sheridan and both of them saying 'If he will sign for five hundred quid a week then you can have him' and Sheridan walking off in the huff as they get back to kip.

If you read the OS stuff on Holdsworths talk at the Business Club meeting before the Port Vale game, He says Sheridan identifies the players he wants , DH does the contracts and openly says he is there to see that the contracts given out are right for the player coming in and the club isn't getting ripped off. He also says previous signings have not proved value for money.
Sound business practice in my view.

seesaw50 wrote: If you read the OS stuff on Holdsworths talk at the Business Club meeting before the Port Vale game, He says Sheridan identifies the players he wants , DH does the contracts and openly says he is there to see that the contracts given out are right for the player coming in and the club isn't getting ripped off. He also says previous signings have not proved value for money.
Sound business practice in my view.

Curles signing are 'carrying' the team though so I don't know why he reckons that they are not value for money, hard pushed for him to disagree with that after three straight wins.

How many permanent signings has he overseen - four or something?

And only one has proved so far as of being of any quality it has to be said.

Loan players don't count as they are not ours.

PD himself could do the job of Holdsworth in just one evening by telling Jenkins how much he will give him and he could relay this to JS.

seesaw50 wrote: If you read the OS stuff on Holdsworths talk at the Business Club meeting before the Port Vale game, He says Sheridan identifies the players he wants , DH does the contracts and openly says he is there to see that the contracts given out are right for the player coming in and the club isn't getting ripped off. He also says previous signings have not proved value for money.
Sound business practice in my view.

50 Grand a year down the pan Simple as

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

seesaw50 wrote: If you read the OS stuff on Holdsworths talk at the Business Club meeting before the Port Vale game, He says Sheridan identifies the players he wants , DH does the contracts and openly says he is there to see that the contracts given out are right for the player coming in and the club isn't getting ripped off. He also says previous signings have not proved value for money.
Sound business practice in my view.

50 Grand a year down the pan Simple as

Exactly - how does he oversee signings when the transfer window has closed?

We are maxed out on loan players as well so best of luck overseeing that one too to make sure that we get the best deal.

Just telling you what was said on the OS.
Twist it as you want or contact the club and ask for an explanation if you think you are due one

Not much of getting a reply from them is there

Doesn't sound like whoever was in charge of contracts previously did a very good job according to Holdsworth. Nixon or Clibbens?

seesaw50 wrote: Just telling you what was said on the OS.
Twist it as you want or contact the club and ask for an explanation if you think you are due one

Bit harsh pal, wasn't having a go at you.

Was just pointing out the obvious, a budget is a budget and we have loads of people managing this - something that Nixon should be doing.

Bringing in someone to get better value for players is like bring in a babysitter for a poor performing management team, maybe we need another person to oversee if Holdsworth is performing whilst we are at it.

To be fair Clibbens does reply but on this instance I can make my own mind up if I think that a position is value for money or not thank you.

seesaw50 wrote: Just telling you what was said on the OS.
Twist it as you want or contact the club and ask for an explanation if you think you are due one

Maybe about time you realised Seesaw the o/s is nothing more than a propaganda tool for Jenkins and produced by someone with his tongue further up Jenkins arse than the Trust are [ if thats actually possible ]

Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

I'm sure the contracts were nicely drawn up and met all the legal requirements. Holdsworth's view is the Club was naïve in not negotiating harder with players and their agents. In particular, items like win bonuses were based on a vague assumption that better results would increase attendances and would be self-financing. To give Clibbens some credit I think he recognised the issues particularly with the need to play more attractive football at BP to attract fans. Essentially Holdsworth is saying you need a streetwise ex-footballer to deal with agents and get the best value from new signings.

I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during some of the discussions with EWM prior to Holdsworth's appointment. Clibbens must have got the blame for almost everything - rightly or wrongly. I'm not surprised he's been almost invisible so far this season.

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

David Holdsworth = keeping an eye on the purse strings per EWMs financial guy on the board
Why do some think this isnt a positive move.

carwash wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

I'm sure the contracts were nicely drawn up and met all the legal requirements. Holdsworth's view is the Club was naïve in not negotiating harder with players and their agents. In particular, items like win bonuses were based on a vague assumption that better results would increase attendances and would be self-financing. To give Clibbens some credit I think he recognised the issues particularly with the need to play more attractive football at BP to attract fans. Essentially Holdsworth is saying you need a streetwise ex-footballer to deal with agents and get the best value from new signings.

I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during some of the discussions with EWM prior to Holdsworth's appointment. Clibbens must have got the blame for almost everything - rightly or wrongly. I'm not surprised he's been almost invisible so far this season.

Thank you carwash

seesaw50 wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

David Holdsworth = keeping an eye on the purse strings per EWMs financial guy on the board
Why do some think this isnt a positive move.

I dont know if its positive or not yet. One question is why does Holdsworth know more about contracts than Clibbens who did a similar job at Huddersfield. If i was Clibbens i wouldnt be happy at all that hes come in and is basically saying how crap at his job Clibbens has been. Thats assuming Clibbens signed off the previous deals.If Curle was involved in them which i suspect he was at least on the bonus side of it then hes also saying he was bloody useless as well and hes a former England international who again youd think would know a bit about contracts.

carwash wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

I'm sure the contracts were nicely drawn up and met all the legal requirements. Holdsworth's view is the Club was naïve in not negotiating harder with players and their agents. In particular, items like win bonuses were based on a vague assumption that better results would increase attendances and would be self-financing. To give Clibbens some credit I think he recognised the issues particularly with the need to play more attractive football at BP to attract fans. Essentially Holdsworth is saying you need a streetwise ex-footballer to deal with agents and get the best value from new signings.

I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during some of the discussions with EWM prior to Holdsworth's appointment. Clibbens must have got the blame for almost everything - rightly or wrongly. I'm not surprised he's been almost invisible so far this season.

You mean like a ex England defender?

Seesaw is looking for a row with someone tonight

Dancingbear wrote:

seesaw50 wrote:

Dancingbear wrote: Who did do the contracts pre Holdsworth? If it was Clibbens then a Holdsworth s basically telling him he’s [censored] useless.

David Holdsworth = keeping an eye on the purse strings per EWMs financial guy on the board
Why do some think this isnt a positive move.

I dont know if its positive or not yet. One question is why does Holdsworth know more about contracts than Clibbens who did a similar job at Huddersfield. If i was Clibbens i wouldnt be happy at all that hes come in and is basically saying how crap at his job Clibbens has been. Thats assuming Clibbens signed off the previous deals.If Curle was involved in them which i suspect he was at least on the bonus side of it then hes also saying he was bloody useless as well and hes a former England international who again youd think would know a bit about contracts.

If you want to know who was agreeing on the contracts previously have a look at Curles wonderboy,s title in his new job at Bury

There's no pressure on anyone at the club, because we've made a good start and long may it continue. But if results slip and injuries start the atmosphere will change.

munchymagic wrote: Seesaw is looking for a row with someone tonight

Seesaw has no agenda

Seesaw asked the same question as db which was taken to the meeting by CCU and Mouldy
The question was, why do we need a DoF when we have a CEO , when we are cutting budgets?

Seesaw was satisfied with the answer.

Seesaw was just staying what DH said on the OS (and in Jon Colmans piece in last Friday's Cumberland News) !

Seesaw wonders why every move by the club is turned into negative controversy by a certain section of this board, when this particular move is plainly a good idea, and affordable apparently.

Who knows CCU but would like to think there was more in that statement and the "we" had more to do with himself and EWM

www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-utd/lates...98c4-d27b0387e137-ds

Speaks very well here in my opinion.

Looks like he's in more than just the director of football role too, speaks openly about the fact he's trying to bring money/new people into the club.

All I can say is good luck!

paddockite wrote: www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-utd/lates...98c4-d27b0387e137-ds

Speaks very well here in my opinion.

Looks like he's in more than just the director of football role too, speaks openly about the fact he's trying to bring money/new people into the club.

Are you attending the Directors Forum tomorrow night, Laffy?

It just seems a bit top heavy for me, like Linda Lusardi.
We have very modest numbers of first teamers that are our own players, most of which were nothing to do with him or Sheridan.We have got numerous loanees, most of which look decent.
So far this season we are doing well and credit to all involved, but are all these people really needed at the club?
I ask myself how many backroom staff/people we have now compared to back in the day and are we better off for it?
Pisses me off that most players at our level earn a pittance , but all these ex-players are on the gravy train.

We do appear top-heavy, and Holdsworth speaks like a CEO, not a Director of football. However, the financial well-being of our Club already has a custodian in the form of Suzanne Kidd the Financial Director. All responsibility for our balance sheet should sit in her lap. The only time she is not responsible is if she is overruled by the Chairman via the CEO.

Somebody ask Holdsworth what experience does he have to be a Director of Football and also ask Nixon who else applied for the job of DoF.

I would have went mesel but Id rather skewer my own tackle than listen to them lot gibbering on.

There will be plenty of bull shit.

He will probably claim that he got Keith Curle the job at Northampton and then blame him for losing Northamptons 10m on the stand business.

Hello my name is David Holdsworth.

Anything that’s been done well is all down to me me me and anything that’s been bad I’ll blaim everyone else.

I single handedly got Gretna to where they were, don’t mention they went bust, and I’ve now saved Carlisle United all by myself. Have I mentioned I’ve also saved the world like Gordon Brown.

I’m also world bullshit talker winner 2018. Taking over from Steve Pattison 2017 and John Nixon 2016z

When Curle took over he never (to my knowledge) slagged off Kavanagh's regime, I think he was just happy to get the job and quietly set about getting rid of the players that he did not want.

We were doing okay before and now Holdsworth wants us to be grateful for us erm doing okay now.

And all that guff about players being on too much money that Curle signed - these are the same payers that are doing well for him now whilst he milks the credit for them.

By telling them they are on too much cash we are effectively telling them that they have no future a Carlisle United and their agents will be on the case finding new clubs already, shouldn't be hard with the way that most of them are performing.

No doubt some will be offered new deals by us but like most players last season they will be off.

Sounds a nice fella.

Dancingbear wrote: Sounds a nice fella.

I could be a nice fella if I was doing his job..

Dancingbear wrote: Sounds a nice fella.

There is a difference between being decent as an after dinner speaker and as a football agent for Carlisle United.

Fair enough if he can do Clibbens job as well but we have three people doing the same job.

I always enjoy listening to footballing stories and that part was fine.

Thing is though, if Sheridan does well then he does well, if it goes sour then it is Sheridans fault for not managing them correctly.

Same with Clibbens, it will always be his fault, Holdsworth seems to be a 'middle man' who is in quite a safe position.

However a decent cause it may be I noticed he also added what he does for charrridee as well to make out he does something as I notice his job was glossed over in seconds.

Tbh I stopped listening I felt that comfortable with him there was no need to listen further.