GENERAL ELECTION 2017 THREAD

YTS schemes were ace in my view, I got sent to loads of places round Carlisle and gained lots of experience, some good some bad but I was really excited to see how the businesses ticked over - made mistakes at times, mainly my attitude thinking I knew it all and that but learned from this.

A lot of people said it was slave labour, was hard work some of the places I was sent but it was work of sorts and gave you a bit of pocket money and stuff and experiences to put on your cv.

The alternative was to sit on your arse all day or keep applying for jobs that nobody would touch you for as you have no experience at anything other than school.

It is a pretty separate debate really - *imagine the stench of super skunk as you walk into Booze Busters as it is stashed next to the fags behind that shutter

*Don't worry it wont happen.

munchymagic wrote: It is a pretty separate debate really - *imagine the stench of super skunk as you walk into Booze Busters as it is stashed next to the fags behind that shutter

*Don't worry it wont happen.

Legalise the use off fish fingers on the plates of the middle class

howoldboy wrote:

Bruntonpasty wrote:

munchymagic wrote: Not even a free car for every voter if they get in would make the lib Dems credible.

They are in an enviable position of offering the voting public anything that they want because there is no chance of them getting into power.

All very true there Munchy lad, but there will be the gullible out there who will give the Lib Dems their vote in the belief that, after the election, dope will be legal! Beware! there are feckwits at large!

To be honest, Labour have employed the same tactic to attract votes away from the Tories, offering abolition of tuition fees as an example.

FAO Mods. Feel free to move this to election thread if you like, I should have posted it there really, Sorry!

If you can't even post on the right thread how can we trust you to vote the right way on election day?

Ha ha:lol: You can't trust me, I'll let you have my vote if you want it? In my defence, unlike the politicians, I admitted my mistake. My resignation is in the post.

I find it strange that Labour are supposedly the champions of the working class and yet -

1. The only real route for an academically gifted working class lad/lass to get into a school with a comparable standard to the best privates and therefore into the best unis was via Grammar schools. Something that Labour got rid of and are opposed to bringing back whilst the Toies introduced and want to bring back.

2. The best chance to earn a decent wage for someone who is from a working class background but not academically gifted is via apprenticeships and learning a trade. Something Labour got rid of in favour of packing everyone off to uni regardless whilst the Tories are bringing them back as a major route into work.

3. The biggest block to university education for the working classes are tuition fees, which were introduced by a Labour government.

Explain how scrapping grammar schools, discouraging apprenticeships and introducing massive tuition fees has helped working class people?

Bruntonpasty wrote: Our shortage of trades people is a legacy of the lack of forethought and investment in Further education i.e. Technical colleges, etc. Kids are pushed towards university when they really aren't of the correct academic mindset and a more practical vocational route would be more suitable. Schools have attracted funding to build facilities that have damaged further education colleges. For example, Ullswater community college has a hairdressing Salon and a motor vehicle repair workshop. Kids at 14 years old are being pushed up cul-de-sacs career wise when in reality they don't know their arses from their elbows(there will be odd exceptions). Schools should be concentrating on getting these kids a reasonably broad education but more importantly, up to standard in numeracy and literacy, Instead, when these kids arrive at colleges at 16, the colleges are having to spend time and funding patching them up, if the "young adult " will accept the help.

Correct. As a former employer, about 15 years ago took on two apprentices and sent them on day release to college.

Was told one of them had to go two days a week because he could barely read, write or do basic maths.

I watched eggheads the other day where a team of thirtyish year olds didn't know Exmoor is partly in Devon.

What the hell they were teaching these kids is beyond me.

General knowledge among younger people is often poor but maybe they just know different stuff? Perhaps we're building a generation of kids for whom installing Kodi on a Firestick is second nature, but they don't know the capital of Bulgaria.

It's funny how a team of 18 year old's win our pub quiz every week,they also seem to have a rota to go to the toilet.

Non of the parties have it right, makes you wonder whether to bother voting at all, but it would be wrong not to. The Tories scare me more than the other parties as since the Thatcher years they have encouraged a society built around greed where the rich get richer at the expense of the weaker in society. They also bludgeon through things by changing the rules if they don't get their own way. From a Cumbrian point of view they are hell bent on building Moorside so producing more and more nuclear waste when we already have a massive problem with what to do with existing waste, one solution they have already tried is an underground repository the size of a small town in Cumbria, added to which they want to push on with Fracking and re opening a mine on the west coast all in a county with a fault line running through it, total lunacy which at its worst outcome could render the north of England a Nuclear no go zone for future generations. Rant over.

Dentonholmersimpson wrote:

Bruntonpasty wrote: Our shortage of trades people is a legacy of the lack of forethought and investment in Further education i.e. Technical colleges, etc. Kids are pushed towards university when they really aren't of the correct academic mindset and a more practical vocational route would be more suitable. Schools have attracted funding to build facilities that have damaged further education colleges. For example, Ullswater community college has a hairdressing Salon and a motor vehicle repair workshop. Kids at 14 years old are being pushed up cul-de-sacs career wise when in reality they don't know their arses from their elbows(there will be odd exceptions). Schools should be concentrating on getting these kids a reasonably broad education but more importantly, up to standard in numeracy and literacy, Instead, when these kids arrive at colleges at 16, the colleges are having to spend time and funding patching them up, if the "young adult " will accept the help.

Correct. As a former employer, about 15 years ago took on two apprentices and sent them on day release to college.

Was told one of them had to go two days a week because he could barely read, write or do basic maths.

I watched eggheads the other day where a team of thirtyish year olds didn't know Exmoor is partly in Devon.

What the hell they were teaching these kids is beyond me.

The argument starts and ends with Education, the problems surrounding it are complex and many. There is no doubt that standards have gone down decade on decade, however at the same time technology has gone stratospheric, the requirement for the brain to be everything is no longer. Over the same decades, discipline and parenting standards have gone down, combined to political correctness and the implications of giving little Johnny a ' bat round the lug ' make the school environment difficult for teachers who are weak, hence the staff turnover and retention and ' Super Heads ' . The political arguments are a smoke-screen to some fairly basic and natural issues that come around as humans change with there surroundings.
Education is for the majority, however it must also provide for the special needs, this relates to both the under and over achievers, we need to cater for them all -not just the majority in the middle.

Just seen the Labour manifesto-unless you are on benefits,all will be worse off.Absolutely fascinating study in delusion and envy-a heady cocktail it seems if you are a follower of Corbyn economics

When will they accept that raising tax rates lowers the overall take?

Other countries seem to manage and they don't let their old folk sit in their own waste, so you makes your choices.

Laffy wrote: Just seen the Labour manifesto-unless you are on benefits,all will be worse off.Absolutely fascinating study in delusion and envy-a heady cocktail it seems if you are a follower of Corbyn economics

When will they accept that raising tax rates lowers the overall take?

Everyone is entltled to their opinon and you certainly liked sharing yours with us

So if raising taxes reduces the tax take why will everyone apart from those on benefits be better off?

Irrespective of that there are a fair few countries with a higher tax take like Germany, Sweden, Austria, France , Norway that havent fallen apart as a result and seem to be doing ok.

Actually lowering tax rates brings in more revenue. There was a German economist who has pioneered this and it has actually worked in some countries.

PS I've got an O level ( B ) in economics so I know my stuff.

What a country we are when we let the small percentage of wealthy elite tell us what is good for us. Of course they won't just dress it up in a way that suits their own agenda.

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So Sir Philip Green who is worth a couple of billion might be a bit worse off!! And at least Labour have costed their proposals. The Tory rags have been screaming how everyone working will be better looked after under May but the Tories have been forced to admit they don't know where the money is coming from to give people years off work
www.commonspace.scot/articles/10969/cons...-dismissed-opponents

Typical smoke and mirrors

Labour may have costed their proposals ( as long as Dianne Abbott didn't do the maths ) but they will have to borrow even more money to pay for them.
However they can promise what they like because with son of Lenin running their party they haven't a hope in hell of winning an election.

Schools, hospitals and social care all worse off under the Tories but as long as a few millionaires don't have to pay a few extra quid in taxes that's fine. I'm not convinced Corbyn is the answer but I'm certain it's not May and her bunch of bankers.

Correct-as for costing things,I 'costed' a new car the other day.I decided I couldn't afford it.

I can tell you now-most people out there will not pay 50pc tax-I would rather take a day off,do a bit of charity work,whatever.Happy to pay tax but I'm not flogging myself for 6 months of the year for nothing

'Actually lowering tax rates brings in more revenue. There was a German economist who has pioneered this and it has actually worked in some countries.

PS I've got an O level ( B ) in economics so I know my stuff.'

Ha ha! I've an honours degree in economics (seriously). The theory is fine. The facts are, experience has told me, that it is all made up bollocks. (From both sides) Okay, try a different approach, why not. The thing is there isn't anyone 'clever' enough to work out the best balance of taxation/spending/investment/encouraging entrepreneurship.

The main thing is 'confidence'. People will spend money if they think they will be able to earn enough to repay their loans or top up their savings accounts.

Try living alone on a carers wage and managing?

Absolutely [censored] all for single people who have no benefits for going to work when the monthly outgoings is a massive chunk..

then as for the new child maintenance service well shafting paying parents royally on that one with no remorse what so ever.

.Top of the help list...Council tax..50% reduction for starters from 25% or return to poll tax based on income

And why keep upping wages... pointless coz its a knock on effect for everything else so nobody is better off at all in the long run.



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Venture capitalist doesn't like high tax rates, there's a surprise.

The rich should have to pay their fair share, it's not like these rates increasing is going to make you destitute, just 1 less bottle of Dom at Christmas or 1 day less shooting a year.

Whilst for the rest of us it makes a massive difference.

Well Labour had 13 years to sort these issues out and left a note saying they had spent all the money.

The fact is there are some rich people who don't pay tax as they avoid it-the vast majority of rich people do pay it but there is a point where there is no point in working hard if it's just taken off you

I put myself I the category of being well off having been born in Harraby.I am 54 and enjoy working and taking risk by investing in all sorts of companies.I could semi retire now and stop investing.The principle reason for making that decision is tax-why should I take risks at my stage in life only to see at least half of it taken by the Government.I am happy paying a chunk of tax but risk should be rewarded with something-not penal tax rates.That is why tax collection will fall if they raise the rate.

The real culprits are the big US companies in the UK-Google,Amazon etc.Very easy to sort by introducing a consumption tax on the company like they have done in the gaming industry-basically 15pc on margin.Impossible to avoid but I don't see Google etc closing down their UK operations-too valuable.

Which is probably why they've also pledged to cut down on tax avoidance and tax companies which pay excessive salaries to their top earners. Along with a tax on financial transactions.

Everybody has to play their part and I'm sure you'll find little sympathy among the general public against a rise in the top tax rate when the majority have suffered under this government's war on the poor.

It is more to do with envy and jealousy than practicality, just like the Hunting Ban.

The genuine socialist ideology demands we are all equal, 95% of the so called Socialists live a lie.

The rich will only pay what is deemed reasonable, if UK tax is unreasonable they go elsewhere, as does the investment and jobs.

Battering on with this socialist pledge, is what looses the hearts and minds of the Labour voters.

I see these guys are really helping Jezza - perfect timing, to help Theresa and Tories......

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/latest/Rail-p...a146-53a7e1638b66-ds

The world is round Deckchair-very easy to move transactions to other jurisdictions with lower tax rates e.g. Eire where we had the laughable situation with Apple and their tax bill last year.If Eire had the same tax regime as the UK,it would be a potato farm in the middle of the Atlantic.They would love the UK to impose higher taxes on financial transactions

Corbyn was an IRA supporter in the 1980's when they were bombing mainland UK.

The bloke has a hidden agenda.

Laffy wrote: The world is round Deckchair-very easy to move transactions to other jurisdictions with lower tax rates e.g. Eire where we had the laughable situation with Apple and their tax bill last year.If Eire had the same tax regime as the UK,it would be a potato farm in the middle of the Atlantic.They would love the UK to impose higher taxes on financial transactions

Interesting that you pick that small part of my post and not any of the other parts.

The majority of Europe have higher corporate tax rates than we do, why do businesses still base themselves there ?

The average EU Corporation tax rate is 21.5%, Ireland is 12.5%.

Germany's basic Corporation tax rate is 15%.....

Sorry-not intended.I worked in tax in PWC and met a lot of guys out there who have a pathological problem with paying tax.On the whole,most are happy to pay-the secret is finding a balance and I think Osborne did a good job.Tax collection went up massively under his tenure but after dropping the rates.

Most of high taxed Europe is stagnating eg France.They claim they can grab City jobs but have a tax rate of 75pc.There is no chance of this happening-that's why half of the City is populated by the French.


As for the Med countries,tax evasion is a national pastime and of course they are all in a mess.They are now trying to collect it but it's problematic given tax was optional until the crash.

The curious one is Denmark-high tax but high levels of happiness.More to do with their whole ethos I think and the way they run their lives.

The Tories are themselves planning on raising taxes but probably through the removal of tax breaks rather than the headline rates. Theresa May is very keen on increasing social mobility. She could remove some of the cunning wheezes used to reduce inheritance tax bills or add VAT to private school fees. In fact there are quite a few things that could be done to tax the wealthier which wouldn't affect their lifestyles. I quite like the punitive rates of stamp duty on expensive houses. It raises less revenue but it has capped house price inflation at the top end of the market.

The gap between the rich and the working poor continues to widen which isn't healthy. I'm sure Mrs May is as keen as Corbyn to do something about it.

The simple fact is that the poor [which in my opinion is anybody earning under 50k] would in all likelihood accept a 1 or 2% rise in direct taxation if it was ringfenced to fund The NHS. Schools. Social Care.Benefits and Emergency Services etc to the point we all think is acceptable the only problem with this is the rich fukkers would do everything they could to wriggle out of paying leaving the poor to pick up the bill as always.

Yes they should make the big companies pay particularly those who make their money from the internet

But to me the best way is a progressive luxury goods tax the higher the cost of something the more tax it attracts for instance you can buy a perfectly good new car for 35k now if people choose to buy one for 70k instead thats fine but as they can clearly afford it the rate of tax on 70k one would be higher than that on the 35kone and the rate would get progressively higher the higher the value of the car being bought was to get.

Saw a woman on TV this morning moaning that her and her husband couldn't live on a joint income of 55k at her feet were 4 screaming little brats i was dieing for the reporter to tell her well stop fukking breeding then you dozy bitch.

Part of Jezza's manifesto:

"Football fans would get more say in their clubs with a law that allowed supporters trusts to be able to appoint and remove at least two club directors and to purchase shares when clubs change hands".

I agree-consumption tax is impossible to avoid and rich people consume more than the less well off.

The best thing Osborne did was introduce a cap on tea reliefs-it stopped all those naughty film schemes favoured by footballers and celebs in one stroke.It introduced a minimum rate of tax by the back door.Subtle but hugely effective with tax reliefs now focussed on genuine risk rather than back catalogue purchases of Coronation Street-I'm not kidding.

I would give May a chance.Corbyn is out of his depth and just playing the envy card to his ever decreasing audience.

Any chance admin can start a General Election thread to keep all this shite in one place and not clutter the forum up .

Venture capitalist in "I'm alright, Jack" shocker.

Rather take a day off then work 6 months of the year for nothing? Please tell me your understanding of our tax system isn't so warped... otherwise I'm inclined to think it's a good thing that Jenkins decided to screw you.

My heart bleeds for the wealthy. How dare the peasants ask them to contribute a little more? The system may be failing, and the system may be what enabled them to accumulate wealth, but why should they be asked to repair the system?

Alan wrote: Any chance admin can start a General Election thread to keep all this shite in one place and not clutter the forum up .

As requested...

Boo! Hiss!

thesilentone wrote: Part of Jezza's manifesto:

"Football fans would get more say in their clubs with a law that allowed supporters trusts to be able to appoint and remove at least two club directors and to purchase shares when clubs change hands".

And that if for no other reason should make every sane minded football fan vote labour

Never mind Brexit lets vote on the basis of the really important issues.

Laffy wrote:
I would give May a chance.Corbyn is out of his depth and just playing the envy card to his ever decreasing audience.

Speaking of folk being out of their depth, the Tories were supposed to be balancing the books by now. And just 2 years ago, they pledged a £9 'living wage' by 2019. Already they have gone back on that, and will miss that target by close to £1. That's a spectacular miss.

No wonder they wouldn't allow the OBR to cost their manifesto last time round. The Tories have had an absolute shocker.

I am absolutely relaxed about Jenkins 'screwing me'-he is in a £2m hole whilst I am able to watch the game for £20 and enjoy it.Football is like any business-it needs professional management and losing £500k a year falls short in my opinion but thankfully not my issue.I tried to help and failed-I am so over it!

There is nothing wrong about asking for a little but more-but that's not what Corbyn is suggesting.Its a full blown assault and doomed to failure because it doesn't work.He has spent a lifetime making a career out of protesting-he isn't a leader,he's a militant complainer of the first order.

The average man in the street pays 44.7% of his income back to the Government, the highest ever in the history of the island. The only people who have had substantial tax cuts are those who earn over £85000 a year. As for reducing tax increases tax revenue, when did that become accepted economic wisdom?? Bollocks pure and simple for any country in Western Europe. Same economic wisdom that says run up an enormous overdraft at 10% pa while you have cash on deposit earning 0.1% or that hotels don't pay tax?

If you want to take money out of your pocket and put it into Nixon's vote Tory, pure and simple.

Hear hear Marko.I think our 2016 accounts are about to be filed so have a look-none of that filing in last day rubbish.

Brexit has been good for the industry with a weaker pound.More competitive for our European and American customer base

Markovitch wrote: The average man in the street pays 44.7% of his income back to the Government, the highest ever in the history of the island. The only people who have had substantial tax cuts are those who earn over £85000 a year. As for reducing tax increases tax revenue, when did that become accepted economic wisdom?? Bollocks pure and simple for any country in Western Europe. Same economic wisdom that says run up an enormous overdraft at 10% pa while you have cash on deposit earning 0.1% or that hotels don't pay tax?

If you want to take money out of your pocket and put it into Nixon's vote Tory, pure and simple.

Fake news again Marko...

The Personal Income Tax Rate in Denmark stands at 55.80 percent. Personal Income Tax Rate in Denmark averaged 60.66 percent from 1995 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 65.90 percent in 1997 and a record low of 55.40 percent in 2010.

Just to really pxxs you off:



Japan 55.95 Dec/16 50.84 55.95 50 % Yearly
Netherlands 52.00 Dec/16 52 60 52 % Yearly
France 50.20 Dec/16 50.2 59.6 45.4 % Yearly
Italy 48.80 Dec/16 48.8 51 44.1 % Yearly
Germany 47.50 Dec/16 47.5 57 44.3 % Yearly
Australia 45.00 Dec/16 45 47 45 % Yearly
China 45.00 Dec/16 45 45 45 % Yearly
Spain 45.00 Dec/16 46 56 43 % Yearly
United Kingdom 45.00 Dec/16 45 50 40 % Yearly
Switzerland 40.00 Dec/16 40 40.4 40 % Yearly
United States 39.60 Dec/16 39.6 39.6 35 % Yearly
South Korea 38.00 Dec/16 38 38 35 % Yearly
India 35.54 Dec/16 34.61 35.54 30 % Yearly
Mexico 35.00 Dec/16 35 35 28 % Yearly
Turkey 35.00 Dec/16 35 40 35 % Yearly
Canada 33.00 Dec/16 29 33 29 % Yearly
Indonesia 30.00 Dec/16 30 35 30 % Yearly
Brazil 27.50 Dec/16 27.5 27.5 27.5 % Yearly
Russia 13.00 Dec/16 13 13 13 % Yearly

Mr Corbyn can promise many, many things in his party's manifesto but, and here's the rub, do you believe]the Labour party under him can deliver what he promises? In general, I am sceptical about anything that politicians promise but this manifesto seems to be unrealistic in the extreme. So, do you believe that these promises are achievable? Can a labour government be trusted with the economy to deliver these promises? Me? Nah, no way!

Laffy wrote: I am absolutely relaxed about Jenkins 'screwing me'-he is in a £2m hole whilst I am able to watch the game for £20 and enjoy it.Football is like any business-it needs professional management and losing £500k a year falls short in my opinion but thankfully not my issue.I tried to help and failed-I am so over it!

There is nothing wrong about asking for a little but more-but that's not what Corbyn is suggesting.Its a full blown assault and doomed to failure because it doesn't work.He has spent a lifetime making a career out of protesting-he isn't a leader,he's a militant complainer of the first order.

The Jenkins thing was tongue-in-cheek. Much as we disagree politically, you have a good track record in business - and not just locally. Soppy crap out of the way...

As for the rest: a full blown assault? Nonsense. An extra 5% on income between 80k and 123k (43k eligible), an extra 10% on income between 123k and 150k (27k eligible), back to an extra 5% on all income over 150k.

My god, what a travesty!

As for the Tory economic model, it really isn't working. Those of you with money to spare may not be feeling the pinch yet, but its starting to bite for the rest of us. Inflation on the up, real term wages falling, and absolutely no plan from the current (and - sadly - future) government to help the man on the street.

thesilentone wrote: Just to really pxxs you off:



Japan 55.95 Dec/16 50.84 55.95 50 % Yearly
Netherlands 52.00 Dec/16 52 60 52 % Yearly
France 50.20 Dec/16 50.2 59.6 45.4 % Yearly
Italy 48.80 Dec/16 48.8 51 44.1 % Yearly
Germany 47.50 Dec/16 47.5 57 44.3 % Yearly
Australia 45.00 Dec/16 45 47 45 % Yearly
China 45.00 Dec/16 45 45 45 % Yearly
Spain 45.00 Dec/16 46 56 43 % Yearly
United Kingdom 45.00 Dec/16 45 50 40 % Yearly
Switzerland 40.00 Dec/16 40 40.4 40 % Yearly
United States 39.60 Dec/16 39.6 39.6 35 % Yearly
South Korea 38.00 Dec/16 38 38 35 % Yearly
India 35.54 Dec/16 34.61 35.54 30 % Yearly
Mexico 35.00 Dec/16 35 35 28 % Yearly
Turkey 35.00 Dec/16 35 40 35 % Yearly
Canada 33.00 Dec/16 29 33 29 % Yearly
Indonesia 30.00 Dec/16 30 35 30 % Yearly
Brazil 27.50 Dec/16 27.5 27.5 27.5 % Yearly
Russia 13.00 Dec/16 13 13 13 % Yearly

Have you done a dementia test lately?? That is the second time you have swerved off at a massive tangent. The claim made by more than 1 person above is that cutting the rate of tax leads to an overall increase in the total number of pounds collected. It doesn't, at least not in Britain. See Russia above. The tax rate was 60% and they cut to 13%. That worked because 82% of the economy was black so people started paying tax so they could sleep at night. That won't happen to the same extent in Britain because the black economy is proportionately tiny, cutting tax will reduce the revenue collected. Same for corporation tax, six of the largest 10 UK companies don't pay any tax !

The one sure fire way to screw your economy is to spend all of your money on imports. Six of the seven largest capital projects on the Government's to do list are 70%+ imports, Trident being the largest. Whether you are left or right wing there is no escaping that.

I am in Magaluf on the lash-so far removed from this pish!

Can I say that as a failed Carlisle saviour?

I believe Jezza, it's the idiots he's surrounded by.

Unionism is his Achilles heel, he plays it down as it's a vote looser, however, they pull his strings.

My only concern is when the going gets tough, I don't think he has the metal to stand up for us, his personal loyalty is questionable.