The Brexit Thread

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

This kind of nonsense really doesn't help the exiteers cause. Why don't you leave it to folk who can make a decent case rather than throw out nonsense like that?

Members have a variety of clauses they must meet. If they don't meet them, they don't get in.

If you don't believe in the democratic nature of the system through which our PM was elected, how can you believe that we are 'taking back control' through voting out?

I think you need to read up on the facts 7 countries memberships inc Rumania and Bulgaria were rushed thru without them meeting the 35 point test [ one country passed as low as 5 of the 35 ] and just as an example none of them have a minimum wage and more than one of them has in the past defaulted on their payments and were they put into financial meltdown like Greece No were they hell as like their payments were made for them from a fund controlled by Germany.

And those who think staying in is a bright idea are twisting what is being said No one on the out side has said Turkey will definitely be members within 10 years what they have said is that it is a possible as i have just given an example of but Cameron and his cronies wont debate that one as they know they cant prove that it wont happen so are therefore answering a totally different point to the one being made..

And yes actually i do believe in democracy in fact i believe in it to the point that if a certain percentage of constituents call for it on any issue their MP has to vote the way a poll of the constituents tell him to and not just the way he wishes to. Here we have a great constituency MP but on a number or important subjects he totally ignores the wishes of a large number of his constituents in order to pander to a large faction who got him elected.MP.s are supposed to represent the wishes of all their constituents and not just the ones who voted for them.

You say I need to learn facts, then claim Romania and Bulgaria were rushed through the '35 point test'. Here's a fact for you: There were only 31 chapters when those two nations were admitted to the union, not 35. Your 'facts' are erroneous.

Ok when some of the 7 were admitted yes it was 31 for some of them its 32 and now its 35

You do realise that the (now, but not in 2007) 35 points of the EU Acquis don't need to be fully met in order to join the EU? What is needed is a timetable as to when they will be adopted. The EU must be satisfied with the applicant's guarantees as to when this will happen. As an example of those points not being met, several nations obliged to participate in the third stage of Economic and Monetary Union are not yet doing so. Only the UK and Denmark are not obliged to do this.

Yes most of that is correct but pray tell just how long it will be before you think all 7 countries admitted at that time will have satisfied all their tests be it 31 32 or 35 ?
My money says Turkey will have been granted membership before they do.


You criticise the 'in' campaign for refusing to debate purely speculative positions. Utterly absurd. The bottom line with Turkey is that they won't be joining the EU in the foreseeable future. If the 'out' crowd would explicitly admit this, it may give them a bit of credibility. Instead, they (some, not all) spread fears that '80 million Turks are coming'.

So now youre saying " foreseeable future why not just put a proper timescale on it instead of just using one of that tw*at Camerons phrases that mean absolutely nothing definite.And nobody has said 80m Turks would come here what is being said is that if Turkey were admitted to the EU 80m of them would be entitled to come here or are you trying to deny that as fact as well ?

MP's have a more complex role than you think. They shouldn't always go with the majority. Many are privy to sensitive information which they can't share with their constituents, and that can change the balance of any given situation. They should always go with that which is in the best interests of the nation, not with the ill-informed - even if well-intentioned - masses.

So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

Are you referring to Jo Cox here NS? If so, have a day off and show some respect will you? The poor woman was killed in the street for f*cks sake...

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

In all seriousness mate, what does that have to do with whether we're members of the EU or not?

chesterviabothel wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

Are you referring to Jo Cox here NS? If so, have a day off and show some respect will you? The poor woman was killed in the street for f*cks sake...

And if there are other MP.s with views like hers i can tell you now she wont be the last.

I actually think she was a damm good constituency MP but why should she be able to exploit her extremist views in that position when if someone with the opposite views did so they would be more than castigated for it.

Let's get this straight.

You're unhappy for foreigners to come over here and murder our people, but you're happy to see our MPs gunned down in the street by right wing maniacs. What's wrong, dark skinned lunatics not good enough for you.

CumbrianView wrote: Im not racist in anyway .But the poster thats being talked about is right when someone says that they will take 1 million refugees the image happens .God forbid but Mrs Merkel will pay for this judgement of all them in Germany how many are ISIS sleepers and when they get European Citizenship will be welcome over here .If the people of London and many major cities in Britain like not to hear english but forign conversations on there streets so be it but its not for me.Its started in Carlisle from the top of Botchergate To Asda at the bottom its very rare to hear a english conversation.

Too true ..we are relatively unaffected up here in little old Cumbria but people don't semi to understand the social fabric of the country is bring upset and changed beyond what people know as their town or city.... Those who proffer , the you must be racist if you don't wasnt foreigners in masses coming to live in your area, are the ones who don't live in urban often working class areas and aren't affected by such large numbers of incomers!!


Vote leave on June 23rd

Moorlad wrote: Let's get this straight.

You're unhappy for foreigners to come over here and murder our people, but you're happy to see our MPs gunned down in the street by right wing maniacs. What's wrong, dark skinned lunatics not good enough for you.

No ML what i.m saying is if its not right to have extremist views at one end of the scale then mainstream Political parties shouldnt be exploiting the situation by foisting people with extremist views at the other end of the scale onto unsuspecting white communities knowing there is a large enough Muslim electorate to get them elected despite what the White British people want.

But if you want to take it back to its basest if we.d not let these people in in the first place we wouldnt be having these arguments and wouldnt have an MP dead on the street.

We probably would, he'd just have someone different to hate.

Is it just Muslims you want sent home Barry, or would you like to go further back? Maybe another 50 years back you could send me and my family back to Ireland where we belong, or back to 1066 and them Normans can f[/b][censored] off, or the Vikings to take it even further, perhaps the Romans.

The country is made up of migrants man, get over it, it is the colour of the skin of the majority of Muslims you don't like, it isn't anything to do with them working or anything else. It is actually just plain and simple racism. You're hardly the only one, there are plenty, everyone would just be better able to base their arguments if the likes of your good self and Nigel would just admit it and get on with things.

Again though, what do Muslim people migrating from the Middle East or the Far East have to do with our membership, or not, of the EU?

I don't class myself as racist but I want a stop to uncontrolled immigration of low skilled EU members because I have seen 1st hand the detrimental effect it is having.

Having worked with disabled people for some time. Prior to the freedom of movement more disabled people were in jobs albeit low paid. Now these jobs are taken by EU nationals because the employers get an extra potato an hour. Disabled people now are finding it harder than ever to get jobs despite cries of the opposite.

Is that just to do with EU migrants Mullen? What about some of the welfare to work things that have been phased out, what about things like Remploy factories being closed. I know they still do great work getting disabled people into jobs, but they've had a huge part of what they did removed.

Still at least you're talking about EU migrants and have a coherent argument.

Moorlad wrote: Again though, what do Muslim people migrating from the Middle East or the Far East have to do with our membership, or not, of the EU?

Because the EU is controlled by Merkel and her mates and it pretty clear what her veiws on letting them in are.

But still some good will come out of it as at the next elections the German people will no doubt tell her theyve had enough and that will be the last we.ll see of her

Couple of Simple question for you ML.......... Are right wing anti immigration movements on the increase in just about every country in the EU ? ............And do you think this has anything to do with the present Syrian refugee issue or not ?

Yes and yes.

But that doesn't make it right, does it? It is our duty to at least make some sort of effort to take in genuine refugees. At the same time we are still taking in other migrants from all over the world. Migrants from EU countries we have no real choice over, but there are higher numbers coming in from other countries, which migrants bother you more? The Poles and Eastern Europeans, or the Indians and Middle Eastern ones?

Moorlad wrote: Is that just to do with EU migrants Mullen? What about some of the welfare to work things that have been phased out, what about things like Remploy factories being closed. I know they still do great work getting disabled people into jobs, but they've had a huge part of what they did removed.

Still at least you're talking about EU migrants and have a coherent argument.

And who was it who as just about the first thing he did when he got elected as the first prong of his attack on those welfare state closed Remploy down ?

Yes of course it was none other than the one and only Dodgy David Cameron

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

chesterviabothel wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

Are you referring to Jo Cox here NS? If so, have a day off and show some respect will you? The poor woman was killed in the street for f*cks sake...

And if there are other MP.s with views like hers i can tell you now she wont be the last.

I actually think she was a damm good constituency MP but why should she be able to exploit her extremist views in that position when if someone with the opposite views did so they would be more than castigated for it.

So now Jo Cox was an extremist?

That was nothing to do with the EU, that was to do with crippling the welfare state and trying to create an underclass within the country. He wants the disabled, the working people and the ordinary man in the street to suffer, so his mates running the banks can keep getting their massive handouts.

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

chesterviabothel wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

Are you referring to Jo Cox here NS? If so, have a day off and show some respect will you? The poor woman was killed in the street for f*cks sake...

And if there are other MP.s with views like hers i can tell you now she wont be the last.

I actually think she was a damm good constituency MP but why should she be able to exploit her extremist views in that position when if someone with the opposite views did so they would be more than castigated for it.

So now Jo Cox was an extremist?

I guess socialism is extreme to a fascist.

One of the issues with the leave campaign is that it gets taken over by so many mindless racists, who can't see anything to base their decision on, other than people coming over here and stealing their jobs.

Immigration should be a factor in people's decision. The free movement of absolutely anybody in the EU into this country is a problem, and their ability to access benefits quite quickly makes coming to Britain appealing to many. However we absolutely do rely on the work of immigrants, and our economy has (and always will) relied on it.

It has been said time and time again the politics surrounding this referendum has been an absolute disgrace. People aren't taking any notice of what the politicians are saying, because there is so much sh!t to wade through in order to get genuine advice and guidance on matters.

Until the last few days I've been confident I was voting to leave the EU, but the fact that almost every expert in every field is voting to remain makes the risks of leaving the EU hard to ignore. The EU isn't perfect, but we have a lot to lose and not a huge amount to gain by leaving.

Migration and Immigration, some forced due to war or drought, some by choice. EU/World does it matter ? The UK has always greeted immigrants - when it has suited us. However, if we are to be ' fully blown ' EU members c/w free movement of labour, then we must have an infrastructure that can cope with this. Asking people who migrate here to adopt ' Britishness is poppycock, there will be no such thing as Britishness.

As has been said many times before, if one EU member Country is offering a minimum wage of 0.85p/hr and another offers £12.00 (Denmark) what do we expect !! However that is OK for the young and mobile who can relocate, what about the old and disabled, what do they do?

The EU is corrupt and out of control
The Euro is unfit for purpose and will need to be replaced for currency Union to work.
The EU is a declining market compared to it's worldwide competitors.
The EU does not give a flying fig about it's member states, ask the Greeks !!!!!
The EU is so top heavy. it will collapse under it's own weight.
Uncontrolled immigration is a bone of contention to many people in the UK (including the immigrants)
Why try and force us to be part of something we do not want, we are not alone, the Dutch and Danes will follow suit.........(or make political mileage from our exit)

Moorlad wrote: Yes and yes.

But that doesn't make it right, does it? It is our duty to at least make some sort of effort to take in genuine refugees. At the same time we are still taking in other migrants from all over the world. Migrants from EU countries we have no real choice over, but there are higher numbers coming in from other countries, which migrants bother you more? The Poles and Eastern Europeans, or the Indians and Middle Eastern ones?

Yes i agree we do and i whole heatedly agree with letting 20k those whove stayed in the camps in the likes of Lebanon on 5 year licences.

And yes we do we can vote to leave but in some ways i wish wed stay in if we had a prime minister with the balls to fight them and make it even more unattractive to come here we could cut the numbers coming overnight.

Thats the point ML i dont discriminate against any of the categories you mention i think they should all be treat exactly the same

For me the number allowed in each year should equal the amount of people who left the previous year [ thats both immigrants returning home and Brits moving abroad] done on a points basis around the people we need the most so if youre a fully trained Indian doctor or nurse you.ll get in if youre a Bulgarian potato picker chances are you wont.

But a lot of it for me are the people the government claim dont exist the East Europeans who come here to commit crime because that crime here earns them 10.s of times more here than it does back home Think how much a pimp with 5 girls working for him here earns compared with what hed get back in Roumania

Another question for you ML .............If we started putting the Syrians onto ferries and taking them back to you think the number getting into rubber dingies would go up or go down ?

Pointless saying there will be no such thing as Britishness. There is no such thing anyway, this country is, and always has been, a melting pot. It is (whether the racists want it or not) a massively multi-cultural society, more so than almost anywhere else in the world? Why? Well, it seems obvious, it is because we once controlled a massive part of the world, the British Empire was enormous, and people from all points of the compass came here. Hell people from the West Indies, from Africa, from India and the newly formed Pakistan were actively brought here. Poles, Czechs and other Eastern Europeans as well as some Italians came over during the second world war to fight for us, and never went back, the same with Americans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders. We have students coming to our universities now, from all over the world.

What is British? a load of knuckle dragging racist thugs trying to wreck town centres, or is it the people of Leicester, who the other week chased Britain First out of their city? I certainly know which people I want to live with. I'll say again, if foreigners without the local language, with no contacts and even less local experience can come and take your job, then you're just not very good at it.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: Another question for you ML .............If we started putting the Syrians onto ferries and taking them back to you think the number getting into rubber dingies would go up or go down ?

I don't imagine it would change much at all, perhaps it would go up because those we send back will be back on another boat trying to get somewhere else.

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

chesterviabothel wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: So now youre saying that the best interests of the English Nation would be best served by inviting every displaced Muslim to come and live here as that silly bint and her even loonier partner believed was right are you ?

..

Are you referring to Jo Cox here NS? If so, have a day off and show some respect will you? The poor woman was killed in the street for f*cks sake...

And if there are other MP.s with views like hers i can tell you now she wont be the last.

I actually think she was a damm good constituency MP but why should she be able to exploit her extremist views in that position when if someone with the opposite views did so they would be more than castigated for it.

So now Jo Cox was an extremist?

Have you honestly read up on some of the organisations and groups her and her husband are/were involved with and what some of thems aims and aspirations are ?

The difference is in this country compared with most of the rest of Europe being anti immigration is seen as some sort of crime whilst people with veiws at the other extreme are allowed to get away with it unhindered.

Moorlad wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote: Another question for you ML .............If we started putting the Syrians onto ferries and taking them back to you think the number getting into rubber dingies would go up or go down ?

I don't imagine it would change much at all, perhaps it would go up because those we send back will be back on another boat trying to get somewhere else.

Not according to them getting into the dinghies because they claim to have given the traffickers all their life savings or are you saying theyre telling porkies

Whether they're telling the truth or not, I'm sure they'd find a way, they're desperate to get out, they're fleeing persecution and possible murder - yeah, I think they'll find a way.

Moorlad wrote: Pointless saying there will be no such thing as Britishness. There is no such thing anyway, this country is, and always has been, a melting pot. It is (whether the racists want it or not) a massively multi-cultural society, more so than almost anywhere else in the world? Why? Well, it seems obvious, it is because we once controlled a massive part of the world, the British Empire was enormous, and people from all points of the compass came here. Hell people from the West Indies, from Africa, from India and the newly formed Pakistan were actively brought here. Poles, Czechs and other Eastern Europeans as well as some Italians came over during the second world war to fight for us, and never went back, the same with Americans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders. We have students coming to our universities now, from all over the world.

What is British? a load of knuckle dragging racist thugs trying to wreck town centres, or is it the people of Leicester, who the other week chased Britain First out of their city? I certainly know which people I want to live with. I'll say again, if foreigners without the local language, with no contacts and even less local experience can come and take your job, then you're just not very good at it.

I actually thought better of you than to fall into that trap ML

So where do you put the 5 million White British people who voted for UKIP at the last election and like me wouldnt be seen dead having anything to do with the likes of Britain First or The National Front.

Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

Moorlad wrote: Whether they're telling the truth or not, I'm sure they'd find a way, they're desperate to get out, they're fleeing persecution and possible murder - yeah, I think they'll find a way.

Well maybe if they stayed in Syria and put as much effort into ridding their country of the people who have [censored] it up as they do into getting into dinghies they might save the rest of us a load of grief and as we have no appetite to get involved there on the ground i.m sure we.d be more than happy to assist them financially to do it.

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

Agree with most of what you're saying on here Moorlad, but UKIP were widely regarded as the best protest vote in the last election. I wouldn't vote for them, but to say that everyone who voted for UKIP is racist could probably be classed as prejudice!

In fact UKIP are exactly the same as the BNP, constant nastiness and trying to undermine society. I saw Nick Griffin buying unemployed, stupid kids on Cleator Moor beer, and giving them cigarettes to vote BNP. Those clowns didn't actually need to be bribed to have those views, the bribe was for them to get off their backsides and go and vote (most of them couldn't spell "x" though). Farage is almost the bloody same swanning into pubs buying people beer, so they'll say what a nice fella. His views are an absolute disgrace mate, he is a bigot of the very worst kind.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

3,881,099 was the number of votes for UKIP in the general election, not 5 million.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

Yes.

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So are you saying that poster was made up like photoshopped or something or was it a genuine picture of Syrian Refugees heading in the general direction of Britain ?

Nowhere did it claim that they would all end up here just that the law of probability says that some of them might.

Why do you think there arent pictures of thousands of refugees heading east towards Russia a country that has loads of room to accommodate them ?

What does it have to do with membership of the EU Barry. It was just preying on racist views, pure and simple. It doesn't outright say all of these are terrorists, and all of them are coming your way, but it certainly implies it.

You know how advertising works, you know why Fosters sells more than far better beers.

Moorlad wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

Yes.

Well youre once again falling into that trap arent you put the label on them and thats what they.ll become and dont you think that if we dont vote leave there will be a massive number of people just waiting to be signed up as they.ll see UKIP as their best way of getting what they want. What will you do when they have 50 MP.s which is quite possible by the time the next election comes around and they hold the balance of power. ?

Part of our society is racist, as well as some are gay, some are drug addicts, some are Man Utd supporters and some are jam eaters.....................

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

Yes.

Well youre once again falling into that trap arent you put the label on them and thats what they.ll become and dont you think that if we dont vote leave there will be a massive number of people just waiting to be signed up as they.ll see UKIP as their best way of getting what they want. What will you do when they have 50 MP.s which is quite possible by the time the next election comes around and they hold the balance of power. ?

What will I do? Nothing, they're no different from the Tories, they're just a little bit clearer about what they want.

It isn't a trap, and I certainly haven't fallen into it. UKIP are a racist party, they are a party full of bigots, everyone already knows it, just because Farage comes over as having a jolly posh boy attitude doesn't stop him being an obnoxious bigoted fool.

What would they do in government Barry? What is the point of their existence? They're going to have to disband on Friday if they win, they haven't any policies. If they hold the balance of power they'll just sit with the Conservatives, you know that, I know it, everyone knows it. They are just Conservatives who admit to having those right of Thatcher views.

Moorlad wrote: What does it have to do with membership of the EU Barry. It was just preying on racist views, pure and simple. It doesn't outright say all of these are terrorists, and all of them are coming your way, but it certainly implies it.

You know how advertising works, you know why Fosters sells more than far better beers.

It has to do with the EU because the woman with power there is telling them all to get in the dinghies and come over and the EU will sort them out which encourages even more to come making the situation even worse.

And doesnt every advert imply something that may or may not be true but has some truth behind it that may or may not be provable for example "Guinness is Good for You"

Well I voted UKIP in the last General Election cos there was a poor alternative, Would'nt vote Tory cos they look after the rich and well heeled, Milliband just come over as a wet blanket same mould as old Foot and the welsh windbag Kinnock who got himself and Glynis a good living out of the EU gravy Train. And this Corbyn guy well enough said on him. I've said all along its out for me and nothing changes.....

Some really interesting stuff about the EU referendum on Mike Smithson's twitter , particularly regarding polls etc. These two graphics made interesting reading:

Yeah, it is to prey on those gullible enough to believe it, and that's the trap you've fallen into it seems.

The EU, and others, should be doing everything possible to help genuine refugees shouldn't we? So the German Chancellor is doing the right thing surely. Isn't it the humanitarian thing to offer help and support to people who are suffering? Should Britain, as a country, be turning our backs on people who are being systematically hunted down and persecuted or killed? Is that what "Britishness" is now? That wasn't the case in the '30s and '40s, we were prepared to help people from other countries then weren't we?

Moorlad wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: Why on earth would anybody vote UKIP if they weren't racist? The party's only policy is to get us out of Europe, and to do that they writhe in the gutter with the BNP and Britain First, they pander constantly to people's basest fears by using race. Look at that poster last week, that is pure racism. If you vote for that scum, you are voting for racists, and by association .... well work it out.

So just to be clear you believe all 5 million people who voted for UKIP are racist then ?

Yes.

Well youre once again falling into that trap arent you put the label on them and thats what they.ll become and dont you think that if we dont vote leave there will be a massive number of people just waiting to be signed up as they.ll see UKIP as their best way of getting what they want. What will you do when they have 50 MP.s which is quite possible by the time the next election comes around and they hold the balance of power. ?

What will I do? Nothing, they're no different from the Tories, they're just a little bit clearer about what they want.

It isn't a trap, and I certainly haven't fallen into it. UKIP are a racist party, they are a party full of bigots, everyone already knows it, just because Farage comes over as having a jolly posh boy attitude doesn't stop him being an obnoxious bigoted fool.

What would they do in government Barry? What is the point of their existence? They're going to have to disband on Friday if they win, they haven't any policies. If they hold the balance of power they'll just sit with the Conservatives, you know that, I know it, everyone knows it. They are just Conservatives who admit to having those right of Thatcher views.

Maybe you should look at some of the seats where they came second at the last election and its pretty clear it was ex labour voters joining them and not conservatives.

What they would do is what any grouping of 50 MP.s should do and thats moderate the excesses of the largest party.

The next election could see the end of the party system in this country when you look at the differing factions ie two in the conservatives two in Labour UKIP and the Scot Nats and once you have that sort of split it becomes a lot easier for independants with a following to get elected meaning i make that 7

No mate you're very wrong, they would not moderate the excesses of the other party, they are more excessive than the Tories, they would make them worse.

Look at what CvB posted, and I would agree with it, people with little or no formal education are more likely to vote leave, just like they are more likely to vote UKIP, because they are more likely to be swayed by what they read in the Sun and the Mail. There will still only be one Labour party, there will still only be one Conservative party, the SNP will start to lose seats as well, the Lib Dems will make gains, and I guess UKIP will too. There will still only be 2 main parties though, the problem is with UKIP pandering to the bigots and being more acceptable than the NF or BNP, former labour voters who are a bit on the dim side are going to go there.

Moorlad wrote: Yeah, it is to prey on those gullible enough to believe it, and that's the trap you've fallen into it seems.

The EU, and others, should be doing everything possible to help genuine refugees shouldn't we? So the German Chancellor is doing the right thing surely. Isn't it the humanitarian thing to offer help and support to people who are suffering? Should Britain, as a country, be turning our backs on people who are being systematically hunted down and persecuted or killed? Is that what "Britishness" is now? That wasn't the case in the '30s and '40s, we were prepared to help people from other countries then weren't we?

No we shouldnt Britain is full end of story

If Merkel wants to help them well let her get on with it and fill Germany with them but dont use her power base to inflict them on the rest of us when the only reason they want to come here is that were seen as the easy touch as i say you arent we seeing big queues of them trying to get into Russia do you ? And why are there thousands of them all along the French coast trying to get here rather than just stay in France and make the best of it

Well if they stayed in their own country and fought for what they believe in they could have their country back ISIS are all but done for and with a bit of encouragement and help i.m sure the Kurds will assist them to get rid of their supposed ruler and from the ruins i.m sure they can rebuild the country even if it has to involve a degree of partition.

Moorlad wrote: No mate you're very wrong, they would not moderate the excesses of the other party, they are more excessive than the Tories, they would make them worse.

Look at what CvB posted, and I would agree with it, people with little or no formal education are more likely to vote leave, just like they are more likely to vote UKIP, because they are more likely to be swayed by what they read in the Sun and the Mail. There will still only be one Labour party, there will still only be one Conservative party, the SNP will start to lose seats as well, the Lib Dems will make gains, and I guess UKIP will too. There will still only be 2 main parties though, the problem is with UKIP pandering to the bigots and being more acceptable than the NF or BNP, former labour voters who are a bit on the dim side are going to go there.

Youre not making any sense here you say that Leave is full of dissatisfied Torries yet youre also agreeing that Leave is full of the uneducated masses so excuse me but arent the Torys the ones who all send their kids to universities and are therefore exactly the opposite.

Is that it then? Doors closed, nobody can come in? Or are you going to allow some in still? If so, who? You're going to be selective on how rich they are (not how much they'll contribute, you'll note), not on need - either ours or theirs. Britain is not full at all.

How many thousands are there queueing up to get here? That just sounds like trash, why would they come here, not stay in France, or Germany, this is just the press whipping it up again. I'm sure maybe there are a few thousand who want to come here, maybe they have family here or something, but it isn't enough to sink the country. We should have compassion for those less well off than us.

I'm singing off your hymn sheet soul man, Moorlad little or no formal education education will probably vote to leave, My arse, I have several good reasons want to leave but I'm not getting into a pissing contest about. I don't need anybody to advise me on voting I make my own mind up. Yes migration is one of them because Britain is a small island and were bursting at the seams, services are stretched to breaking point and still we've got to have an open doors policy that will not change with an in vote....

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Moorlad wrote: No mate you're very wrong, they would not moderate the excesses of the other party, they are more excessive than the Tories, they would make them worse.

Look at what CvB posted, and I would agree with it, people with little or no formal education are more likely to vote leave, just like they are more likely to vote UKIP, because they are more likely to be swayed by what they read in the Sun and the Mail. There will still only be one Labour party, there will still only be one Conservative party, the SNP will start to lose seats as well, the Lib Dems will make gains, and I guess UKIP will too. There will still only be 2 main parties though, the problem is with UKIP pandering to the bigots and being more acceptable than the NF or BNP, former labour voters who are a bit on the dim side are going to go there.

Youre not making any sense here you say that Leave is full of dissatisfied Torries yet youre also agreeing that Leave is full of the uneducated masses so excuse me but arent the Torys the ones who all send their kids to universities and are therefore exactly the opposite.

The leave campaign is run by Tories and their sympathisers, it is massively right wing. The ex Labour people who are ill educated will vote for those things because they are railroaded into it by the right wing press scaring the hell out of them.