The Brexit Thread

DeckchairBlue wrote: Had a quick look at the odds of it all again. 3/10 to remain 11/4 to leave.

Boris Johnson is firm favourite to be next PM.

Odds have fairly changed over the last few days.

8/13 remain
13/10 leave

DeckchairBlue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

howoldboy wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Useless wrote: What's stopping me voting leave is the prospect of sharing a similar stance as you on anything at all.

Well when we vote leave on the 23rd according to some on here we.ll all become racists wether we like it or not so you wont really have a lot of choice.

I made a speech at a Patrons lunch yesterday and received a standing ovation not bad for a crowd who were about a quarter Asian.they love the idea of sending the Syrians and East Europeans home..

So you see Brexit as the first step to cleanse Britain of nasty foreigners NS?

To regular readers this is no great surprise although you seem a little confused as to where you are going to draw the line.

It seems Asians will be OK if they're Monarchists, but Syrians and East Europeans will have to go?

Can you please clarify?

Not a case of cleansing anyone

If we leave the EU anyone who came here as a result of us of us being in the EU will no longer have a legitimate right to stay.

So any Syrians etc that are here as a result of Merkels policies will be required to leave [ I.m sure Angela will welcome them with open arms ] but the 20k that dodgy Dave agreed to take direct from the countries surrounding Syria are fine on the 5 year licences if Syria is sorted by then they will be assisted to return home.

As far as the East Europeans are concerned they lose any right to be here so we just make their lives difficult encouraging them to go home [ like banning foreign based recruitment agencies and deporting anyone whos been here less than 10 years on conviction of any criminal offence.] Estimate is we could lose up to 2m over 10 years.

Good old Donalds plan for a blacklist of countries from who we wont let anyone in is worth a look at and the overall plan would be to admit no more each year than the number of Brits who left the year before.

Massive benefits all round thousands of school places become available without spending a penny, much less pressure on the Health service, thousands of council/housing association homes become available saving the country hundreds of millions a year.

Yes there will be a loss of tax take but a lot less than a lot of people think because dont forget were starting at the bottom with the least desirable/least tax paying and its very unlikely it would reach anyone on higher rate tax band for instance unless of course they wanted to leave because for example their businesses markets had disappeared back to Poland.

Your ethnic cleansing ideas fail to acknowledge that the Leave campaign have already said that anybody already in the country when we come out of the EU will have indefinite leave to remain. Nobody will be kicked out.

Ethnic Cleansing my arse.

Simple Question do any of these people hold a British Passport ?

Answer NO They dont.

So therefore we are quite within our right to ask them to leave Nothing to do with "ethnic cleansing".

They are here because they have a right to be as we are members of the EU Once we leave the EU they no longer have that right and we can quite legitimately ask them to leave and if you believe we wont be doing that youre living in cloud cuckoo land.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

howoldboy wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Useless wrote: What's stopping me voting leave is the prospect of sharing a similar stance as you on anything at all.

Well when we vote leave on the 23rd according to some on here we.ll all become racists wether we like it or not so you wont really have a lot of choice.

I made a speech at a Patrons lunch yesterday and received a standing ovation not bad for a crowd who were about a quarter Asian.they love the idea of sending the Syrians and East Europeans home..

So you see Brexit as the first step to cleanse Britain of nasty foreigners NS?

To regular readers this is no great surprise although you seem a little confused as to where you are going to draw the line.

It seems Asians will be OK if they're Monarchists, but Syrians and East Europeans will have to go?

Can you please clarify?

Not a case of cleansing anyone

If we leave the EU anyone who came here as a result of us of us being in the EU will no longer have a legitimate right to stay.

So any Syrians etc that are here as a result of Merkels policies will be required to leave [ I.m sure Angela will welcome them with open arms ] but the 20k that dodgy Dave agreed to take direct from the countries surrounding Syria are fine on the 5 year licences if Syria is sorted by then they will be assisted to return home.

As far as the East Europeans are concerned they lose any right to be here so we just make their lives difficult encouraging them to go home [ like banning foreign based recruitment agencies and deporting anyone whos been here less than 10 years on conviction of any criminal offence.] Estimate is we could lose up to 2m over 10 years.

Good old Donalds plan for a blacklist of countries from who we wont let anyone in is worth a look at and the overall plan would be to admit no more each year than the number of Brits who left the year before.

Massive benefits all round thousands of school places become available without spending a penny, much less pressure on the Health service, thousands of council/housing association homes become available saving the country hundreds of millions a year.

Yes there will be a loss of tax take but a lot less than a lot of people think because dont forget were starting at the bottom with the least desirable/least tax paying and its very unlikely it would reach anyone on higher rate tax band for instance unless of course they wanted to leave because for example their businesses markets had disappeared back to Poland.

Your ethnic cleansing ideas fail to acknowledge that the Leave campaign have already said that anybody already in the country when we come out of the EU will have indefinite leave to remain. Nobody will be kicked out.

Ethnic Cleansing my arse.

Simple Question do any of these people hold a British Passport ?

Answer NO They dont.

So therefore we are quite within our right to ask them to leave Nothing to do with "ethnic cleansing".

They are here because they have a right to be as we are members of the EU Once we leave the EU they no longer have that right and we can quite legitimately ask them to leave and if you believe we wont be doing that youre living in cloud cuckoo land.

Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?

pacirv wrote: To many people are voting with their heart and not their head and only on the immigration issue, while the likes of TTIP is been mooted that could result in major companies suing and bankrupting countries. If we vote out we will be at the mercy of an uncaring Govt with no one to curb their extreme policies.

If we vote out we won't be part of TTIP as it's between the EU and US.

People keep going on about us being batter off doing our own trade deals like Switzerland. Look at the deal the Swiss have with China, it's absolutely awful and completely one sided in favour of the chinese.

Brunton Pasty,
Our politicians in power will do pretty much anything to be reelected.
As I have said before the Eu is probably more democratic than our system. Clearly far from perfect but what is..
Anyone who thinks leaving will not have a major detrimental effect on the economy, their jobs and our public services... Well, sorry but they are deluded.
How extreme right wing politicians have managed to pull the wool over so many eyes is beyond me.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Useless wrote: What's stopping me voting leave is the prospect of sharing a similar stance as you on anything at all.

Well when we vote leave on the 23rd according to some on here we.ll all become racists wether we like it or not so you wont really have a lot of choice.

I made a speech at a Patrons lunch yesterday and received a standing ovation not bad for a crowd who were about a quarter Asian.they love the idea of sending the Syrians and East Europeans home..

I guess your public speaking is better than your writing?

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Useless wrote: What's stopping me voting leave is the prospect of sharing a similar stance as you on anything at all.

Well when we vote leave on the 23rd according to some on here we.ll all become racists wether we like it or not so you wont really have a lot of choice.

I made a speech at a Patrons lunch yesterday and received a standing ovation not bad for a crowd who were about a quarter Asian.they love the idea of sending the Syrians and East Europeans home..

I guess your public speaking is better than your writing?

To be fair, he had to step in at the last minute when the comedian cancelled.

Osbornes at it now saying taxes could go up and funding for the NHS could be cut, Well we'll use some of the 14 billion we'll save by an exit you feckin cretin.....

It's kinda funny how people who are backing the leave campaign and having a go at Cameron, Corbyn Osborne and even Blair who's not really involved are apparently willing to accept the rhetoric from Farage Boris and Gove. Really these three are escapees from the nut house. There are no facts that support the out campaign and they are deliberately not telling people about the years of extreme austerity that is highly likely to follow while we beg to be let in to trade agreements as a small insignificant country. The out campaigns political broadcast was full of pretence and lies the idea in particular that the NHS would be better financed from money save was a pure fantasy, it is more likely to become one of the first victims of cut backs as we struggle to realise ourselves.
Don't get me wrong I hate this Govt and their policies more than anyone and the EU is deeply flawed but there is strength in numbers, and like it or not we breath the same air and share the same planet. Our priority not just for ourselves but for future generations should be to look after the planet that provides us with life, at present we are on a self destruct course driven by selfishness and greed.

pacirv wrote: and they are deliberately not telling people about the years of extreme austerity that is highly likely to follow while we beg to be let in to trade agreements as a small insignificant country..

And it is these kind of threats that people don't like. Experts have an opinion about what may happen economically if we were to leave the EU (and differing opinions at that), but anybody who says they know for certain, or anybody who says that we're in for "years of extreme austerity" is lying, and scaremongering.

In a totally non scientific or representative reaction from pretty well everyone I have spoken to recently, the dire threats of austerity from Cameron, Osborne et al are having the reverse effect of what they are intended to do,. They are irritating people who don't like to be, well almost threatened, and it's a large factor in persuading people to vote NO

Whats wrong with picking tatties we used to do it in the school holidays to earn a few quid or help on the local farms with the hay.Cant imagine many youngsters now doing that they cant even be dropped of at the school gates there parents have to take them to the door soft arses

howoldboy wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Useless wrote: What's stopping me voting leave is the prospect of sharing a similar stance as you on anything at all.

Well when we vote leave on the 23rd according to some on here we.ll all become racists wether we like it or not so you wont really have a lot of choice.

I made a speech at a Patrons lunch yesterday and received a standing ovation not bad for a crowd who were about a quarter Asian.they love the idea of sending the Syrians and East Europeans home..

I guess your public speaking is better than your writing?

To be fair, he had to step in at the last minute when the comedian cancelled.

Who was the comedian Chubby Brown?

Arsene Wenger wants us to remain.......that's me out then.

Out

IN I've a few quid on too

Taffy-P wrote: IN I've a few quid on too

Deluded

Northumbrian wrote:

pacirv wrote: IN
finally made my mind up the thought of ending up with the lunatic Boris running an already obscene Govt is enough for me.

You are much more likely to get a Boris running the government if you vote in.... if remain win there is very likely to be a vote of no confidence in Cameron within the Conservative party and Boris would be the most likely replacement. This could happen a matter of weeks after the referendum.

Gove for me..

seesaw50 wrote:

Northumbrian wrote:

pacirv wrote: IN
finally made my mind up the thought of ending up with the lunatic Boris running an already obscene Govt is enough for me.

You are much more likely to get a Boris running the government if you vote in.... if remain win there is very likely to be a vote of no confidence in Cameron within the Conservative party and Boris would be the most likely replacement. This could happen a matter of weeks after the referendum.

Gove for me..

You think it'll be him, or you'd like it to be?

I like BJ but his temperament is suspect for high office ..Gove is more measured... However Cameron seemed to be saying tonight on special QT he'd see out his term in or out! Nothing is automatic anyway any new PM is way off

seesaw50 wrote: I like BJ but his temperament is suspect for high office ..Gove is more measured... However Cameron seemed to be saying tonight on special QT he'd see out his term in or out! Nothing is automatic anyway any new PM is way off

After his performance at education, I shudder at the prospect of a Gove administration. Bojo would walk through a general election whereas Gove would struggle to win over large swathes of the population. In fact, you're right - Gove over BJ

Big Dave is a goner. He nearly lost Scotland, and has either lost the EU or almost lost it. His leadership is weak, his cabinet has been forced into u-turn after u-turn... and his successor will need time before the next GE to repair the damage done to the party during this abomination of a debate.

If Cameron tries to cling to power, his party will oust him.

I like BJ but his temperament is suspect for high office ..Gove is more measured... However Cameron seemed to be saying tonight on special QT he'd see out his term in or out! Nothing is automatic anyway any new PM is way off

That`s interesting, Cameron conceding the possibility of the out vote, a week ago he was full of himself (as usual) on the prospect of the remain campaign winning the referendum. Could be something has whispered in his shell like "you`re toast pal - cheerio".

Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

Why would the go for that ? Offering a deal like that would have them straight back under Moscow's influence.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

This kind of nonsense really doesn't help the exiteers cause. Why don't you leave it to folk who can make a decent case rather than throw out nonsense like that?

Members have a variety of clauses they must meet. If they don't meet them, they don't get in.

If you don't believe in the democratic nature of the system through which our PM was elected, how can you believe that we are 'taking back control' through voting out?

DeckchairBlue wrote: Why would the go for that ? Offering a deal like that would have them straight back under Moscow's influence.

Offering a deal like what? No specifics were mentioned.

Russia is no longer a communist state. Had they been denied membership, who's to say that Putin wouldn't have lured them in with his plans for a 'Eurasian Union', which he is selling as an entirely different beast to the old soviet dictatorship?

Kangshung wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Why would the go for that ? Offering a deal like that would have them straight back under Moscow's influence.

Offering a deal like what? No specifics were mentioned.

Russia is no longer a communist state. Had they been denied membership, who's to say that Putin wouldn't have lured them in with his plans for a 'Eurasian Union', which he is selling as an entirely different beast to the old soviet dictatorship?

A deal similar to what NS said, which sounds like the equivalent of inviting someone round for dinner but making them sit in the garden to eat it.

I didn't say anything about them being communist anymore, simply that if we didnt get them to side with us they would side with Moscow and therefore be under Putin's influence rather than our own.

Gove was on Andrew Marr show yesterday and when Marr asked if he wanted the NHS privatised he dodged the question which confirmed his intentions. Better dig deep to pay for our health insurance.

DeckchairBlue wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Why would the go for that ? Offering a deal like that would have them straight back under Moscow's influence.

Offering a deal like what? No specifics were mentioned.

Russia is no longer a communist state. Had they been denied membership, who's to say that Putin wouldn't have lured them in with his plans for a 'Eurasian Union', which he is selling as an entirely different beast to the old soviet dictatorship?

A deal similar to what NS said, which sounds like the equivalent of inviting someone round for dinner but making them sit in the garden to eat it.

I didn't say anything about them being communist anymore, simply that if we didnt get them to side with us they would side with Moscow and therefore be under Putin's influence rather than our own.

Sorry, my mistake. I thought you were responding to my response to NS, where I asked him if he would rather push them back towards Russia.

pacirv wrote: Gove was on Andrew Marr show yesterday and when Marr asked if he wanted the NHS privatised he dodged the question which confirmed his intentions. Better dig deep to pay for our health insurance.

Most people realise that the NHS is not as good as it should be. Throwing more money at it won't solve the problems therefore more private sector involvement is the way forward. It is not a yes/no answer so obviously Gove dodged the question. If asked about whether he wanted an insured healthcare scheme to replace the NHS then he could have said no.

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

This kind of nonsense really doesn't help the exiteers cause. Why don't you leave it to folk who can make a decent case rather than throw out nonsense like that?

Members have a variety of clauses they must meet. If they don't meet them, they don't get in.

If you don't believe in the democratic nature of the system through which our PM was elected, how can you believe that we are 'taking back control' through voting out?

I think you need to read up on the facts 7 countries memberships inc Rumania and Bulgaria were rushed thru without them meeting the 35 point test [ one country passed as low as 5 of the 35 ] and just as an example none of them have a minimum wage and more than one of them has in the past defaulted on their payments and were they put into financial meltdown like Greece No were they hell as like their payments were made for them from a fund controlled by Germany.

And those who think staying in is a bright idea are twisting what is being said No one on the out side has said Turkey will definitely be members within 10 years what they have said is that it is a possible as i have just given an example of but Cameron and his cronies wont debate that one as they know they cant prove that it wont happen so are therefore answering a totally different point to the one being made..

And yes actually i do believe in democracy in fact i believe in it to the point that if a certain percentage of constituents call for it on any issue their MP has to vote the way a poll of the constituents tell him to and not just the way he wishes to. Here we have a great constituency MP but on a number or important subjects he totally ignores the wishes of a large number of his constituents in order to pander to a large faction who got him elected.MP.s are supposed to represent the wishes of all their constituents and not just the ones who voted for them.

So basically your MP should vote the way the large number of constituents that you are a part of feel, instead of the large number of constituents that your disagree with feel ?

How is it possible for an MP to represent the wishes of all of their constituents when they will no doubt fall on different political sides, especially in marginal seats ?

DeckchairBlue wrote: So basically your MP should vote the way the large number of constituents that you are a part of feel, instead of the large number of constituents that your disagree with feel ?

How is it possible for an MP to represent the wishes of all of their constituents when they will no doubt fall on different political sides, especially in marginal seats ?

Yes he should vote how the politically active people in a constituency tell him to rather than ignoring them and saying hes doing as the majority want him to when in all liklihood that majority only become involved once every 5 years when the leaders at the mosque tell them to.

And if there isnt a consensus one way or the other he should abstain saying why.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

This kind of nonsense really doesn't help the exiteers cause. Why don't you leave it to folk who can make a decent case rather than throw out nonsense like that?

Members have a variety of clauses they must meet. If they don't meet them, they don't get in.

If you don't believe in the democratic nature of the system through which our PM was elected, how can you believe that we are 'taking back control' through voting out?

I think you need to read up on the facts 7 countries memberships inc Rumania and Bulgaria were rushed thru without them meeting the 35 point test [ one country passed as low as 5 of the 35 ] and just as an example none of them have a minimum wage and more than one of them has in the past defaulted on their payments and were they put into financial meltdown like Greece No were they hell as like their payments were made for them from a fund controlled by Germany.

And those who think staying in is a bright idea are twisting what is being said No one on the out side has said Turkey will definitely be members within 10 years what they have said is that it is a possible as i have just given an example of but Cameron and his cronies wont debate that one as they know they cant prove that it wont happen so are therefore answering a totally different point to the one being made..

And yes actually i do believe in democracy in fact i believe in it to the point that if a certain percentage of constituents call for it on any issue their MP has to vote the way a poll of the constituents tell him to and not just the way he wishes to. Here we have a great constituency MP but on a number or important subjects he totally ignores the wishes of a large number of his constituents in order to pander to a large faction who got him elected.MP.s are supposed to represent the wishes of all their constituents and not just the ones who voted for them.

Your first paragraph is spot on NS .....that's why the big European machine is failing....while imposing rule after rule on the member countries it does nothing to 'encourage' improvement in earnings for the people of the poorer states... Bulgaria Romania and yes even Poland ....these states don't pay in they just get out...what are the governments doing with the grants they get. Obviously if people could make a decent living they wouldn't want to travel abroad.

Do you believe there should be no political parties then Barry? Should each MP have some sort of local vote before every parliamentary decision is made? That would slow the democratic process a bit wouldn't it? In our system, yes, you are voting for an individual, but you are also voting for the party that individual is associated with, you are voting to follow their manifesto. If their manifesto contains stuff you don't agree with, don't vote for them. A party who wins the most seats (not the highest number of votes) has the mandate to carry out it's manifesto commitments, you have given them that right. If you disagree with your MP, tough, he follows (generally) the party line.

This EU referendum is nothing at all to do with being in or out of Europe, it is about control of the Conservative party. One bloke and his mates have taken one side, so his rival and his mates have taken the other, whether they believe in the respective positions or not.

The appallingly racist dogma of one side though should be what decides most right minded people which way to vote. It is nothing to do with migrants from Italy, France or Germany that bothers these deplorable individuals, it is anybody who has a different skin tone from themselves. There is no point trying to say anything different, look at Farage's recent poster, look at Britain First's facebook page. This is whipping up millions of the most ignorant people in this society into a frenzy (aided and abetted by the right wing papers) of hatred for Muslims in the main, but almost anybody of a different colour. Mostly those ignorant prople can't see the difference between migrants from the EU and migrants from anywhere else, they just see them all as black people coming over here and stealing our jobs and claiming all our benefits.

I have to tell you that if you are so shit at your job that somebody with no English language skills, no contacts and no experience of working in this country can come over and take your job you don't deserve to ever work again. And have you not ever noticed the irony about them stealing all our jobs and claiming all our benefits?

Just a little aside on the NHS.

As a lot of you know my wife has been pretty unwell recently. Her initial diagnosis was by a Scandinavian doctor, a breast and cancer specialist at Carlisle. He referred her to a surgeon at North Tyneside hospital, one of the best in the UK I understand, she is Italian. The senior nurse on the ward my wife stayed was from Singapore.

Bloody foreigners coming over here keeping our hospitals running and saving our lives. We've got thousands of knuckle dragging, racist halfwits who could be doing those jobs.

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

Kangshung wrote:

NORTHERNSOUL wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Odds of staying in have shortend following Cameron's question time appearance. Gonna be a busy week on both fronts.

Well i thought that hour will be the end of his political career.

He lied any number of times this evening and you could see in his face when a lie was coming.

Just wish when he said that the minimum amount of time it would take Turkey to get into the EU someone had asked him how several of the ex Iron Curtain countries managed to do it in less than a decade ?

And why they didnt give that guy who asked for 5 mins to put Cameron in his place the time it would of been the best tv for years i bet.

Could it possibly have something to do with them meeting the required criteria - including human rights and freedom of speech - and countries like the UK not vetoing their applications?

Would you rather those countries had been pushed back towards Crazy Ivan and his army of loons?

Are you for real most of them still arent meeting most of the entry criteria now after 10 years of being in and lets get it straight the country doesnt get to veto anyone the Prime Minister does who consierably less than half the electorate voted for and we all know where he really stands on this matter..

And no i would have encouraged them to set up their own grouping allied to the EU and given them financial assistance to do so but not given them the full rights of membership and everything that that brings.

This kind of nonsense really doesn't help the exiteers cause. Why don't you leave it to folk who can make a decent case rather than throw out nonsense like that?

Members have a variety of clauses they must meet. If they don't meet them, they don't get in.

If you don't believe in the democratic nature of the system through which our PM was elected, how can you believe that we are 'taking back control' through voting out?

I think you need to read up on the facts 7 countries memberships inc Rumania and Bulgaria were rushed thru without them meeting the 35 point test [ one country passed as low as 5 of the 35 ] and just as an example none of them have a minimum wage and more than one of them has in the past defaulted on their payments and were they put into financial meltdown like Greece No were they hell as like their payments were made for them from a fund controlled by Germany.

And those who think staying in is a bright idea are twisting what is being said No one on the out side has said Turkey will definitely be members within 10 years what they have said is that it is a possible as i have just given an example of but Cameron and his cronies wont debate that one as they know they cant prove that it wont happen so are therefore answering a totally different point to the one being made..

And yes actually i do believe in democracy in fact i believe in it to the point that if a certain percentage of constituents call for it on any issue their MP has to vote the way a poll of the constituents tell him to and not just the way he wishes to. Here we have a great constituency MP but on a number or important subjects he totally ignores the wishes of a large number of his constituents in order to pander to a large faction who got him elected.MP.s are supposed to represent the wishes of all their constituents and not just the ones who voted for them.

You say I need to learn facts, then claim Romania and Bulgaria were rushed through the '35 point test'. Here's a fact for you: There were only 31 chapters when those two nations were admitted to the union, not 35. Your 'facts' are erroneous.

You do realise that the (now, but not in 2007) 35 points of the EU Acquis don't need to be fully met in order to join the EU? What is needed is a timetable as to when they will be adopted. The EU must be satisfied with the applicant's guarantees as to when this will happen. As an example of those points not being met, several nations obliged to participate in the third stage of Economic and Monetary Union are not yet doing so. Only the UK and Denmark are not obliged to do this.

You criticise the 'in' campaign for refusing to debate purely speculative positions. Utterly absurd. The bottom line with Turkey is that they won't be joining the EU in the foreseeable future. If the 'out' crowd would explicitly admit this, it may give them a bit of credibility. Instead, they (some, not all) spread fears that '80 million Turks are coming'.

MP's have a more complex role than you think. They shouldn't always go with the majority. Many are privy to sensitive information which they can't share with their constituents, and that can change the balance of any given situation. They should always go with that which is in the best interests of the nation, not with the ill-informed - even if well-intentioned - masses.

seesaw50 wrote: I like BJ but his temperament is suspect for high office ..Gove is more measured... However Cameron seemed to be saying tonight on special QT he'd see out his term in or out! Nothing is automatic anyway any new PM is way off

Boris! Cmon.
Did you see him talking about Nissan being in Newcastle.
In Feb 16 he stated Brexit would be bad for UK economy, uncertainty would be damaging and trade deals could take ages....
Gross political expediency, which will backfire.

Kangshung, Moorlad. Finally people that speak sense. Something this debate has so dearly been missing.

Unfortunately it's the ignorant masses who dance to Farage's tune that could vote us out.

Moorlad your absolutely right about the stirring up of hate against anybody if a different colour. My wife is 1/4 Pakistani from her dad's side. A couple of years back she was out with friends and some YOB told her to 'go back to her own country'. She was born in Wolverhampton due to her dad being stationed at Cosford, 1 of the many bases he was at in his 25 years in the RAF. And yet some absolute fuckwit thought that because her skin was darker than his it meant she was from another country. To be fair she chinned him.

The current campaigning tactics of Farage et al are making people like that think it's OK to hold those attitudes and if they are allowed to take over the country it's not a place I want to raise my daughter.

I'm completely and utterly Remain
In all honesty a lot of people's base fears and prejudices have been manipulated by a load of right wing idiots.
Essentially it's come down to, do you worry more about immigration than a stable economy?
Although after Jo Cox's tragic death at least the bigger picture is finally starting to be seen by a lot of people.
I want to live in Cumbria, England, United Kingdom, Europe rather than Little England.

DeckchairBlue wrote: Kangshung, Moorlad. Finally people that speak sense. Something this debate has so dearly been missing.

Unfortunately it's the ignorant masses who dance to Farage's tune that could vote us out.

Moorlad your absolutely right about the stirring up of hate against anybody if a different colour. My wife is 1/4 Pakistani from her dad's side. A couple of years back she was out with friends and some YOB told her to 'go back to her own country'. She was born in Wolverhampton due to her dad being stationed at Cosford, 1 of the many bases he was at in his 25 years in the RAF. And yet some absolute fuckwit thought that because her skin was darker than his it meant she was from another country. To be fair she chinned him.

The current campaigning tactics of Farage et al are making people like that think it's OK to hold those attitudes and if they are allowed to take over the country it's not a place I want to raise my daughter.

I have to say mate, if battle lines are drawn on any issue whatsoever and Boris, Farage, Gove and Murdoch are on one side, then I know that, without a shadow of doubt, the opposite side is the right place to be.

Moorlad wrote:

DeckchairBlue wrote: Kangshung, Moorlad. Finally people that speak sense. Something this debate has so dearly been missing.

Unfortunately it's the ignorant masses who dance to Farage's tune that could vote us out.

Moorlad your absolutely right about the stirring up of hate against anybody if a different colour. My wife is 1/4 Pakistani from her dad's side. A couple of years back she was out with friends and some YOB told her to 'go back to her own country'. She was born in Wolverhampton due to her dad being stationed at Cosford, 1 of the many bases he was at in his 25 years in the RAF. And yet some absolute fuckwit thought that because her skin was darker than his it meant she was from another country. To be fair she chinned him.

The current campaigning tactics of Farage et al are making people like that think it's OK to hold those attitudes and if they are allowed to take over the country it's not a place I want to raise my daughter.

I have to say mate, if battle lines are drawn on any issue whatsoever and Boris, Farage, Gove and Murdoch are on one side, then I know that, without a shadow of doubt, the opposite side is the right place to be.

Don't forget Trump as their mate across the pond...

Anyone undecided or thinks that our economy will be better off out of the EU would be wise to have a watch of this video: https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/?pnref=story.unseen-section

Im not racist in anyway .But the poster thats being talked about is right when someone says that they will take 1 million refugees the image happens .God forbid but Mrs Merkel will pay for this judgement of all them in Germany how many are ISIS sleepers and when they get European Citizenship will be welcome over here .If the people of London and many major cities in Britain like not to hear english but forign conversations on there streets so be it but its not for me.Its started in Carlisle from the top of Botchergate To Asda at the bottom its very rare to hear a english conversation.

CumbrianView wrote: Im not racist in anyway .But the poster thats being talked about is right when someone says that they will take 1 million refugees the image happens .God forbid but Mrs Merkel will pay for this judgement of all them in Germany how many are ISIS sleepers and when they get European Citizenship will be welcome over here .If the people of London and many major cities in Britain like not to hear english but forign conversations on there streets so be it but its not for me.Its started in Carlisle from the top of Botchergate To Asda at the bottom its very rare to hear a english conversation.

Exaggerate much?

Even Michael Gove has distanced himself from the poster in question.

CumbrianView wrote: Im not racist in anyway .But the poster thats being talked about is right when someone says that they will take 1 million refugees the image happens .God forbid but Mrs Merkel will pay for this judgement of all them in Germany how many are ISIS sleepers and when they get European Citizenship will be welcome over here .If the people of London and many major cities in Britain like not to hear english but forign conversations on there streets so be it but its not for me.Its started in Carlisle from the top of Botchergate To Asda at the bottom its very rare to hear a english conversation.

To follow that first sentence with what you did is very, very funny.

Do you actually believe that there are millions of ISIS terrorists pretending to be refugees fleeing from Syria? Do you then believe that they want to spend years becoming EU citizens in Germany? Then after that you believe they want to come to the UK and blow us all up? Is this actually how far the racist scaremongering has got? I can't understand why any rational person can't see how foolish this is. We are far more under threat from people who become radicalised here, people who were born here, British people. They can be radicalised to either side as well, as we all saw last week. That fella who shot and stabbed Jo Cox was a radicalised right wing (nazi) terrorist, and should be described that way, not as a mentally ill, but basically nice white bloke. He was as disgusting as any ISIS terrorist.

B*llocks. You don't walk down Botchergate very often do you.

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