The Politics Thread

Now Harry and Megs are playing politics by calling for all intellectual property rights for the Covid-19 vaccine to be waived. AZ are already selling the vaccine at cost price and making as much as they can. He shouldn't comment on things too complicated for his feeble little brain.

Daily Mail ran a survey of readers. Do you think Boris is a liar and a crook? Does Carrie have too much influence? Did Boris say bodies can pile up in the streets? Will you vote for Boris? 75% yes to all.
When the public sanctions behaviour like that what incentive is there for honesty?
Hartlepool piloted the universal credit scheme, crime rose 5 times and shops shut because of shoplifting.

From the local paper describing the effect.
"Spiralling crime, homelessness, loan sharks, hunger and evictions hit the town as claimants struggle to survive.

"Since the arrival of Universal Credit and cuts to the local police force, crime has leapt in Hartlepool.

"The hawking of stolen goods has become a regular occurrence on the streets of the town, and even drug dealers now find themselves on the receiving end of crime.

When you vote for it, sit on your sofa with a bag over your head, its the best thing for you.

He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50

Not a great night for British politics, however a wake up call for those Councils sitting on their hands, doing mandatory work only, and providing a sxxt service to customers.

Labour is broken, and Starmer is only a stepping stone in time to making them electable again. We can now expect a blood-letting within, as the old left start the blame game.

Not sure if the middle ground really exists anymore, maybe it's gone, the Liberals are also a lost cause.

So, it looks like left or right, and right is where we are headed.

For now, Bojo is his own worst enemy, he is capable of saying, or doing something that his party grandee's will get the hump about.

We are all the losers, as without strong opposition, complacency rules.

Our own County Council is dominated by Labour, so we know where the motivation for change, for those in Hartlepool came from.

Kinda predictable: 12.33pm

"General Secretary of Unite the Union Len McCluskey, has said he hopes Sir Keir Starmer “learns the correct lessons” from Labour’s defeat in the Hartlepool by-election.

“He was elected a year ago on a radical programme, some said a Corbyn-esque programme; he said he wanted to make the moral case for socialism; he wanted a united party - unfortunately he’s failed in all of those areas.

"Hartlepool is the manifestation of it - people don’t know what his vision is. People don’t know what Labour stand for anymore.”

Speaking on Political Thinking, Mr McCluskey told Nick Robinson he no longer spoke to the Labour leader.

“Unfortunately when either side actually don’t deliver the deal and say there wasn’t a deal, trust breaks down, and that’s what happened with me and Keir.

But he added: “Obviously if he rang me I would speak to him. I don’t want to be nasty to anybody."

"But the truth of the matter at the moment is unless he presses that reset button, unless he goes back to making the moral case for socialism, unless he starts talking about the radical alternative for ordinary working people then I’m afraid we’ll find ourselves in this continuous downward decline.”

He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50

He's only popular because the tory press big him up. Beating up girlfriends and hiding in fridges don't bring popularity.
Labour are no opposition. They will mirror the tories and we'll end up with an American system where the 2 parties agree on 99% of policy. If Labour doesn't go that way they'll cease to exist.

Be interesting to see what happens here. Support for independence fallen from 60-40%. Lets see how that translates into the SNP vote. Sturgeons popularity slumped after people realised what mince lockdown was. Now she's shouting about independence while doing every thing to strangle it. As time passes that will come back to bite her

Corbyn was meant to be the new start.

Starmer was meant to be the new start.

You might need to give whoever is next some of your batteries Laffy as the others seem to keep breaking down.

I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.

I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.

I get the feeling half the people of Hartlepool don't know what day it is. However, blame what, who, whatever you like, the change has a massive political impact for the Labour Party. How could they promise voters anything, after Corbyn's never ending, "we'll nationalise this, we'll pay for that, we'll give free the other" knowing fine well it was an impossibility.

A time comes, when things are really bad, the best option is to clear the decks and start again. a bit like Kinnock did with Militant.

Socialism is dead in the water, time to get real.

https://apple.news/AJBfDW-LhTCORlZCWqy1Nxg

One for Sir Lapp: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/07/humiliation-hartlepool-smalltown-detective-di-starmer

You called her a ‘silly bitch’ when she poked fun at BoJo, but now she’s having a pop at dreary Keir-ey you might even crack a smile

She’s even wittier than I, if you can imagine such a thing

Classic paragraph.

On Starmer:

"Wherever he campaigned during this local elections run, he looked like the classic smalltown detective battling his demons, who’s been transferred there from somewhere else in circumstances he doesn’t like to talk about. I quite like Angela Rayner as his earthy, big-hearted local DS, but she doesn’t seem to get any screentime. You get the feeling that DI Starmer is still haunted by the case of a drowned socialite he failed to solve 15 years ago. Boris Johnson, meanwhile, was shagging the socialite and probably accidentally drove the car off a pier then left her to die. And at some level, an aspirational public respects the work."

One for Sir Lapp: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/07/humiliation-hartlepool-smalltown-detective-di-starmer

You called her a ‘silly bitch’ when she poked fun at BoJo, but now she’s having a pop at dreary Keir-ey you might even crack a smile

She’s even wittier than I, if you can imagine such a thing

She's very good, always great articles.

I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.

So parachuting in a staunch Remainer, proposing a second referendum and rejoing the EU, into a 70% leave constituency isn’t Labour’s fault?

Mandellson got it right this morning

Last 11 elections for Labour

Lose,lose, lose, lose, Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose,lose

It’s always great when lefties say ‘ah but Blair wasn’t REAL Labour’
So thats 42 year without a ‘real’ Labour Government then? They still do not understand.

He may be mad Marko but he’s popular and that’s a powerful cocktail

The problem with Labour up here is those in charge are still fixated with coal, steel, Thatcher.To remind all, she left power 30 years ago.We have moved on and battering on about her and traditional heavy industry decline means nothing to most people under 50

He's only popular because the tory press big him up. Beating up girlfriends and hiding in fridges don't bring popularity.
Labour are no opposition. They will mirror the tories and we'll end up with an American system where the 2 parties agree on 99% of policy. If Labour doesn't go that way they'll cease to exist.

Be interesting to see what happens here. Support for independence fallen from 60-40%. Lets see how that translates into the SNP vote. Sturgeons popularity slumped after people realised what mince lockdown was. Now she's shouting about independence while doing every thing to strangle it. As time passes that will come back to bite her

By that token, why would non Tories be buying Tory papers in the first place? Blaming newspapers for election results is a red herring and is an insult to voters.

I don't blame Starmer for this - the big swing was due to the Brexit/UKIP vote evaporating and going tory. Plus the turnout was 42% - the politicians and commentators consider this by-election more important than actual Hartlepool residents did. The majority don't care.

So parachuting in a staunch Remainer, proposing a second referendum and rejoing the EU, into a 70% leave constituency isn’t Labour’s fault?

If they'd got the 30% remainers to come out and vote, they'd have won - it's more a general apathy towards politics

The problem with the Labour Party is that they think voters are stupid.As I said it’s the metropolitan intellectuals who control the party and who are out of touch

I also think the left and right stuff is over-it’s about what can you do for me?

Labours problems boil down to the fact their core vote has split. Brexit and Corbyn have managed that. You now have two camps with vastly different world views.

1. Younger, students/professionals, degree educated, live in big cities, pro remain, pro wokeness, anti patriotism, almost ashamed of what Britain stands for and its history.
2. Traditional labour voters, probably a bit older, live in smaller regional cities/towns, pro brexit, anti wokeness, very patriotic and proud of the country and its history.

They can no longer appeal to both groups.

During Corbyns time as leader they basically assumed the traditional labour voter would never vote Tory so they chased group number 1 - trying to overturn brexit for example. This was helped by the Brexit Party splitting some of the Tory vote in places like Hartlepool. That distain for those peoples views now see group number 2 looking at the Tories and seeing a party more in line with their world view. You can shout the Tories are evil sleazebags etc. all you want - it wont work.

Working people want help to get better jobs and buy a house etc. The tories can at least offer this (whether they deliver is another matter). What do Labour offer - blame the rich for your worries, oh and here, have some more benefits. Its a crap offer. If you disagree you're a thick racist xenophobe apparently. A great quote I read from an ex Labour voter in Hartlepool was "Labour now is rich people telling poor people that other rich people are the problem". Sums it up nicely.

They may start to pick up some of the traditional tory seats around London - but there arnt enough of those to counterbalance the Labour collapse, firstly Scotland and now the North/Midlands.

I hear Corbynites on TV saying they need to be even more radical in order to win. Not only can you not get much more radical than Corybn without being a full communist but they are also completely wrong. Any hope they have of becoming more than just a London student based party rests with them being able to be radically un-radical. E.g. Start reflecting the views of the country rather than a small bunch of champagne Socialists and trade unionists who don't have a clue.

Labours problems boil down to the fact their core vote has split. Brexit and Corbyn have managed that. You now have two camps with vastly different world views.

1. Younger, students/professionals, degree educated, live in big cities, pro remain, pro wokeness, anti patriotism, almost ashamed of what Britain stands for and its history.
2. Traditional labour voters, probably a bit older, live in smaller regional cities/towns, pro brexit, anti wokeness, very patriotic and proud of the country and its history.

They can no longer appeal to both groups.

During Corbyns time as leader they basically assumed the traditional labour voter would never vote Tory so they chased group number 1 - trying to overturn brexit for example. This was helped by the Brexit Party splitting some of the Tory vote in places like Hartlepool. That distain for those peoples views now see group number 2 looking at the Tories and seeing a party more in line with their world view. You can shout the Tories are evil sleazebags etc. all you want - it wont work.

Working people want help to get better jobs and buy a house etc. The tories can at least offer this (whether they deliver is another matter). What do Labour offer - blame the rich for your worries, oh and here, have some more benefits. Its a crap offer. If you disagree you're a thick racist xenophobe apparently. A great quote I read from an ex Labour voter in Hartlepool was "Labour now is rich people telling poor people that other rich people are the problem". Sums it up nicely.

They may start to pick up some of the traditional tory seats around London - but there rant enough of those to counterbalance the Labour collapse, firstly Scotland and now the North/Midlands.

I hear Corbynites on TV saying they need to be even more radical in order to win. Not only can you not get much more radical than Corybn without being a full communist but they are also completely wrong. Any hope they have of becoming more than just a London student based party rests with them being able to be radically un-radical. E.g. Start reflecting the views of the country rather than a small bunch of champagne Socialists and trade unionists who don't have a clue.

Spot on there Blues86.

No signs of an SNP collapse so far.

Good may yet come of this for Labour. Starmer needs to take the bull by the horns and stamp out the remnants of the Corbyn experiment. If the Labour left still wants ‘Corbynism’, let them go elsewhere for it.

McClucking moron and his ilk need booting into touch too, their continual bleating is drowning out the moderate voices and leaving the electorate convinced that Labour are a bunch of borderline Stalinists. Len is a pound shop Scargill. Nothing more.

England will be a one party state if the moderates don’t take control of the Labour Party soon. Time for Starmer to show his metal.

Good quote from respected Labour MP for Perry Barr saying the party has ben lost to London woke warriors. Really hoping a lot will be looking at themselves in the mirror and realise they are doing more harm than good.

The metropolitan intellectuals

Tory record....

LATE TO CLOSE DOWN
LATE TO CLOSE DOWN
LATE TO CLOSE DOWN
AND THE BODIES DID PILE HIGH

Congratulations to Boris and his cronies.... the countries been conned again