David Holdsworth Thread

Sorry Marko-anyone can cut costs, it’s how you go about it and the outcome that counts

At every measure that is important to fans, it’s failure;

-we are in another relegation fight and this one could be terminal

-the football is as bad as it’s been for 20 years-it’s embarrassing to watch professional players playing aimless 50 yard balls into space

-the club is still burning cash

-the club has a growing debt problem.Never forget the importance of compound interest as you and I know.

You go on about the players being decent.They aren’t mate-most of them aren’t fit to wear a Carlisle shirt.Sure they lack confidence but there is not one leader amongst them who will drag them up.On the whole, it’s has beens, cast offs and end of the roads.Anyone of monetary value is for sale.Great message to the team.

We are reaping what was sown 4 years ago and the downward trajectory is accelerating, yet we are expected to accept that the clowns who dug the hole are the best to get us out of it.

We need a bloody forest fire to clear out the hangers on, the deluded, the vested interests.We can then move forward.

Quoted from Laffy on Tuesday, 12 October 2025

Sorry Marko-anyone can cut costs, it’s how you go about it and the outcome that counts

At every measure that is important to fans, it’s failure;

-we are in another relegation fight and this one could be terminal

-the football is as bad as it’s been for 20 years-it’s embarrassing to watch professional players playing aimless 50 yard balls into space

-the club is still burning cash

-the club has a growing debt problem.Never forget the importance of compound interest as you and I know.

You go on about the players being decent.They aren’t mate-most of them aren’t fit to wear a Carlisle shirt.Sure they lack confidence but there is not one leader amongst them who will drag them up.On the whole, it’s has beens, cast offs and end of the roads.Anyone of monetary value is for sale.Great message to the team.

We are reaping what was sown 4 years ago and the downward trajectory is accelerating, yet we are expected to accept that the clowns who dug the hole are the best to get us out of it.

We need a bloody forest fire to clear out the hangers on, the deluded, the vested interests.We can then move forward.

Get it bought Sir Lapp!
Be the saviour

Ha-they won’t deal with me because they know it would be WMD

Quoted from Laffy on Tuesday, 12 October 2025

Ha-they won’t deal with me because they know it would be WMD

Self interests at the detriment of the club will kill it - I said it years ago.

I honestly think they’d rather drag the club down and in effect kill it then deal with you and the others.

Completely agree with your post, it’s the worst side I’ve ever seen and if you’re any good you get sold at the 1st opportunity- you can’t have a winning side like that.

Look at the 95 side that was in town. You could name everyone the same with Simmos side. I struggle to name players now - as they are cast offs rejects.

We are terrible!

The Bonfire of the Vanities

It's a massive over reaction to say this is the worst side you've ever seen.

I know it's all opinions, but for me worse sides in no particular order

The Collins team (just before his sacking)
The McCaffrey team
The Kavanagh tier four side
The Gregg team (Harry not Abbott)
The Wilkinson team.

In my book we have some good players in the squad who have been poorly managed.

Guy's form, for instance, has worsened considerably since he arrived, but is he a poor player at heart?

Riley, Charters, Feeney, Clough, Armer, Guy, Whelan, even Toure, all look like they'll be excellent players if they're properly managed.

Charters looks good enough given a fair opportunity, Bell has bags of potential and Fishburn also.

Young and Jensen look like they'll improve with games and Dinzeyi was different class against Everton U21s at least.

That's the basis of a good team and the core of an excellent squad.

It's right to say we lack a genuine centre-forward or two, but the squad is easily good enough for top half tier four (at least).

Sorry Marko-anyone can cut costs, it’s how you go about it and the outcome that counts There was nowhere else to cut 600k of costs other than player wages

At every measure that is important to fans, it’s failure;

-we are in another relegation fight and this one could be terminal they've acted in time to reverse it

-the football is as bad as it’s been for 20 years-it’s embarrassing to watch professional players playing aimless 50 yard balls into space again. They've acted

-the club is still burning cash No, its not, they have £500k in cash in the balance sheet with more coming in

-the club has a growing debt problem No it doesn't. Jenkins has written his £2m off and the transfer income will more than cover the rest. That's why the succession discussion is taking place, to stop unscrupulous, penniless businessmen trying to take over again and ensure the cash stays in CUFC.
Never forget the importance of compound interest as you and I know Not seen they are paying any. What's the %?

You go on about the players being decent.They aren’t mate-most of them aren’t fit to wear a Carlisle shirt.Sure they lack confidence but there is not one leader amongst them who will drag them up.On the whole, it’s has beens, cast offs and end of the roads.Anyone of monetary value is for sale.Great message to the team. With the possible exception of Norman which of the first 14 wouldn't get a contract somewhere in the league?

We are reaping what was sown 4 years ago and the downward trajectory is accelerating, yet we are expected to accept that the clowns who dug the hole are the best to get us out of it. The management f the club off the pitch is a country mile better than it was, Clibbins and Kidd have made a world of difference. The club strategy of investing in youth will keep us afloat for years to come. Day may not want to spend, but his reputation gives us credibility with the banks and buys us leeway. No one else who has been near the club in 10 years could do that.

We need a bloody forest fire to clear out the hangers on, the deluded, the vested interests.We can then move forward. You mean the people currently in discussion with Purepay and Day to ensure that the club keeps all its future transfer income? The individuals, none of whom draw a salary from the club?

We have 2 big problems
- Performances on the pitch, which hopefully will soon improve with the new manager
- People in Carlisle who don't care about the club. If we got 2000 more on a Saturday.....

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-one/attendances

If you are playing the attendance card Marko, then we should arguably be holding our own just below mid table in League 1.

Our attendances have held up pretty well in my opinion over the last decade given the rubbish served up on and off the pitch by Jenkins and co.

Marko, you will not just magically get 2000 more folk to attend matches. It's not accurate to say the city and community don't care about the club due to attendance levels.

Given the utter shit they're asked to pay handsomely to watch then our attendance levels are actually pretty good, in fairness.

In what other business would you get thousands of folk turning up, forking out hundreds of pounds year in year out for paltry entertainment and consistent disappointment? Given the "football" Beech's team served up it's a miracle our crowds are not significantly lower.

The way to increase attendances is the same way to drive increased sales in any other business. Increase the quality of your product, satisfy your customers, give them value for money - and more will come. It's really that simple.

To suggest otherwise is backwards.

It's like McGubbins bakery explaining their sandwiches are crap because nobody buys them. "If more people bought our sandwiches, we could afford to make them taste better". Blaming the customers is ridiculous, you have to make a delicious sandwich in the first place, then folk will buy it.

The responsibility for the product lies with the club, not with the fans.

I can't argue with that in part. It's the entertainment industry, if it's not entertaining people won't buy it- and you can't blame them.

There are a few things though. How many do we have on this board giving it, I love the club, but I won't put money in the pocket of those leeches like Jenkins, Nixon etc. The 3 people who work for nothing and are currently doing everything in their power to ensure the future wellbeing of the club. And not only do the sofa dwellers not go, they implore others not to go! That's not failure to be entertained, thats being a [censored].

Secondly its chicken and egg. I get the non entertainment, but if people turned out, grinned it and bore it for a season the increase in revenue would be reflected on the pitch (hopefully).

Thirdly, if people want a new owner, and it would be good wouldn't it, some actual investment, the best way to get it is to present the club as well-supported with potential. Not a town stuffed full of morons begging each other not to go the football.

Finally if you really hate Holdsworth, Pattinson, Suzanne Kidd, get down the ground and tell them. better than spouting bile like a wounded 5 year old from behind a keyboard

If you can afford it, what ever your wish is, you have a better chance of achieving it if you buy a ticket

It's not "chicken and egg" you sound like Chris Beech.

Folk have been "grinning and bearing" it for ten years or longer, it's weak to suggest they "just have to do it for one season". This makes zero sense.

So the fans have been doing what you suggest, continually "investing" in the club for ten years or longer. And what has changed? Has the football consistently improved?

If 2000 more folk buy the crap sandwich from McGubbins, will the sandwich really improve? Or will the owner of the bakery, just sit back and be content folk are happy to buy his inferior product?

As for people complaining about "leeches", I don't believe they would stay away for too long if we had a team playing sexy football.

When you get your egg roll you don't go daft jumping all over your mates. You can't compare a sandwich shop with a football club. Greggs don't sell scarves.

Jenkins chucked millions at it, and we didn't go up. So we just abandon hope? What is the point? How do we get better then?

Get down the ground, spend your £17, and we have a chance. Otherwise, you are praying that a businessman with £100m takes a punt, and why would he when the town doesn't care? The downsides of semi penniless second hand car salesmen are legion, we both know that. Day isn't going to put the effort in to protect the club Jenkins has. If he loses interest, he'll sell it for £1 like a hot potato.

People get all misty-eyed and sentimental over football clubs and that is precisely why they fail.

A professional football club is exactly the same as any other retail business, it's selling a product. "Fans", "Supporters" are in real terms, customers nothing more. Loyalty is an illusion, it's unquantifiable, fleeting and fickle - you should never factor this into your equations.

A football club is, when you get down to brass tacks, the same as a bakers, a restaurant or a book shop.

People have finite resources, if the bakery produces horrible pies they'll stop going. If the shoe shop sells them a pair of uncomfortable shoes they won't go back. If the book shop only sells Mills & Boon novels or if the restaurant only serves cold toast with appalling service, folk will not go and the business will fail.

Football clubs are no different, if the football is consistently crap, people will stop going. The rest is pretty much irrelevant.

How do we get better?

How does any business get better? It's not all about money, it's about expertise.

A lot of words to say the same thing. And loyalty isn't fleeting. Skeltons first game as a manager on Saturday? Get down the ground and support him, or get on ifollow. People don't need millions or to pretend they own lamborghinis to make things better, they need to buy a ticket

Marco, you keep saying Jenkins has chucked millions at the club. True, he's had to because, he and his henchmen haven't got a clue how to run a football club. What about Fred Storey? How much did he put in? Less the Jenkins I'll bet, but he knew what he was doing and he got success. Jenkins has only been one thing during his tenure, a disaster.

Quoted from Markovitch on Tuesday, 12 October 2025

My friend did it in Austria, Rapid Vienna. Worked part-time as a defence coach for free with the U23 team. You need a club to say they sponsor you, even if you pay for your license courses yourself, at the higher levels. He did his with the SFA, so he used to fly back for them. On the same course as Charlie Adams and Chris Burke. Then when he passed he went to work with Mark Hateley in China, running football schools for kids.

Half of the people on SFA coaching courses are from outside the profession.

Still, it's an example of someone putting some effort in to achieve a result, so you would struggle to understand. Busy Saturday afternoon planned?

Go on then if it’s that easy. Go get your numerous coaching badges and hours of studying you’ll need to work in a professional club and apply to work near full time hours as our set piece coach for 0 pay other than a season ticket.

I can’t wait to see how this turns out.

Well we can all have our opinions but the facts are clear on their custodianship

-we are third bottom and in a relegation fight
-we have one of the lowest playing budgets in league 2
-no progress on the stadium whatsoever, now a millstone
-more debt to an aloof lender
-lower crowds, maybe 40pc below target
-no promotions, but a relegation and below average league 2 for the most part

Those are the undeniable facts and for the fans to be fed the line that they know best and succession is coming, it’s a bit of a stretch.

The performances on the pitch are dire, no one disputes that. Let's see where we are Christmas.

You, Robin whatsit, lumsdens pals don't have 20/40m to build a new stadium so regime change won't/wouldn't achieve anything there. And who knows, day might have an epiphany, he can afford to build one.

Financial management and youth strategy are going very well. And that will filter through

Can we stop saying debt is going up. Its not, we have hundreds of thousands of cash in the bank

Quoted from Markovitch on Wednesday, 13 October 2025

A lot of words to say the same thing. And loyalty isn't fleeting. Skeltons first game as a manager on Saturday? Get down the ground and support him, or get on ifollow. People don't need millions or to pretend they own lamborghinis to make things better, they need to buy a ticket

How many posts have you made saying exactly the same thing ad nauseum? No-one agrees and no-one is listening.

For someone who likes to chat finance, you seem in need of a lesson in the basics of football economics - a losing team attracts lower crowds.

That’s true of all clubs and always has been. The only exception I can think of is possibly Bradford when they had their ultra cheap season tickets.

It’s completely unrealistic to expect thousands of people who have stopped going to suddenly start turning up again, whether they self identify as boycotters or just can’t be arsed because the product is awful.

The one thing that would bring crowds back straight away is regime change.

Quoted from Markovitch on Tuesday, 12 October 2025

Third bottom with the players we have, I think, is shocking, so no one is above criticism

He earns £60k pa(?) but he has saved £1.8m over 3 seasons, so let's agree that is good.
.

Must have been a hard 30 seconds with his calculator saying "don't pay more than £x a week for new contracts" cos that's all it was

We are in a race to the bottom-have been for 5 years.It’s now a competition between the debt and investment-and we know which one has priority.

The PD debt is going up Marko.Read the accounts.The one thing we don’t know is what the terms of the debt are.I suspect it’s already in technical default due to expiry of the original term-hence the letter of comfort for next 12 months

As for the stadium, the council needs to get off its arse and build a new sports/education complex.The club doesn’t need to build it

You can smell decay around the Club-it’s being run in a shoestring because the current regime screwed it up-the trust being a big part of it with their blocking right.Would they rather have 10pc of something or 25.4pc of [censored] all is the question?

Quoted from heilkmoon on Wednesday, 13 October 2025

Quoted from Markovitch on Wednesday, 13 October 2025

A lot of words to say the same thing. And loyalty isn't fleeting. Skeltons first game as a manager on Saturday? Get down the ground and support him, or get on ifollow. People don't need millions or to pretend they own lamborghinis to make things better, they need to buy a ticket

How many posts have you made saying exactly the same thing ad nauseum? No-one agrees and no-one is listening.

For someone who likes to chat finance, you seem in need of a lesson in the basics of football economics - a losing team attracts lower crowds.

That’s true of all clubs and always has been. The only exception I can think of is possibly Bradford when they had their ultra cheap season tickets.

It’s completely unrealistic to expect thousands of people who have stopped going to suddenly start turning up again, whether they self identify as boycotters or just can’t be arsed because the product is awful.

The one thing that would bring crowds back straight away is regime change.

Well you're listening. Must have struck a nerve.

A losing team does attract lower crowds, but lower crowds give you a losing team. We need to break the cycle, do that by getting the crowds up. If you don't want to help, don't go.

The one thing that would bring crowds back straight away is regime change No it wouldn't. People who don't support the team won't come whatever happens. We've had a regime change, AJ, Nixon and Pattison don't decide anything. It's all driven by Clibbens, funded by Day. The sofa dwellers still don't go. They didn't go when we were in the Championship, and they won't go now.

The Brunton Park boomerang, it just doesn't come back, it just lists endless reasons why it can't. If you don't support the team, why are you here? Waste of your time and everyone elses. People who make decisions aren't listening to you.

We've had a regime change, AJ, Nixon and Pattison don't decide anything. It's all driven by Clibbens, funded by Day.

Bloody hell Marko. You are really losing the plot. Go and take a long walk.

Clibbens stood there at the fans forum in June and stated that everything comes down to succession. We haven't had regime change!!

That's ownership, not decision-making. And it doesn't change my opinion that if Lumsden's crew had taken over, it might have put a couple of hundreds on the gate for a couple of weeks, then back to normal.

2000 extra will solve almost all of our problems, all it takes. I watch every single game live or on ifollow, it's a tough watch, the football and the result.

Something goes horribly wrong in your life. Look at the responses, see who you could turn to for help and who would be unavailable when things weren't going well. Because that's what is happening to us now

The club aren't asking us for our help. In fact they are barely communicating at all. There's a home match on Saturday, and it hasn't been mentioned yet by the club, never mind a push to sell tickets.